PipeChat Digest #5231 - Saturday, March 26, 2005
 
Re: New Digital Comparison Post By Richard Huggins
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Re: New Digital Comparison-Matt's comments  Matt Responds
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Re: New Digital Comparison
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Re: New Digital Comparison-Matt's comments  Matt Responds
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Re: New Digital Comparison-Matt's comments
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Re: New Digital Comparison-Matt's comments  Matt Responds
  by "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net>
Re: New Digital Comparison
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Decline in organ building??
  by "Bob Elms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au>
Re: Decline in organ building??
  by "Paul Smith" <kipsmith@getgoin.net>
Re: Walter 's Comments
  by "Mattcinnj" <mattcinnj@yahoo.com>
Re: New Digital Comparison-Matt's comments
  by "jch" <opus1100@catoe.org>
Re: New Digital Comparison-Matt's comments
  by "Mattcinnj" <mattcinnj@yahoo.com>
Re: Trends
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
Re: New Digital Comparison-Matt's comments  Matt Responds
  by "Mattcinnj" <mattcinnj@yahoo.com>
Re: New Digital Comparison-Matt's comments
  by "Mattcinnj" <mattcinnj@yahoo.com>
Re: New Digital Comparison-Matt's comments
  by "Stephen Best" <stevebest@usadatanet.net>
Re: Thanks Jon ...
  by "Mattcinnj" <mattcinnj@yahoo.com>
RE: New Digital Comparison
  by "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
Re: New Digital Comparison-Matt's comments  Matt Responds
  by <Myosotis51@aol.com>
Music staves on post-it notes.
  by "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca>
Re: New Digital Comparison-Matt's comments
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: New Digital Comparison Post By Richard Huggins From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 06:55:07 EST   In a message dated 3/25/2005 7:00:39 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, mattcinnj@yahoo.com writes:   Allen has been replaced by Johannus as of last year.     i believe that J is now a choice added to the list of choices for those = new "churches". again, price will sell a lot of J's........... dale who keeps opening his fingers..... y'all have a great playing day tomorrow  
(back) Subject: Re: New Digital Comparison-Matt's comments Matt Responds From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 06:56:39 EST   In a message dated 3/25/2005 7:25:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, mattcinnj@yahoo.com writes:   Reason number 3 .... their reputation for NOT supporting older models is = a big factor why folks choose Allen over them, even if they prefer the = Rodgers sound.     Allen really doesn't support older models. They MAKE the customer UPDATE........not the same thing. Or, the new stuff is really old stuff = tweaked. This is so fun. dale in florida  
(back) Subject: Re: New Digital Comparison From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 06:58:26 EST   In a message dated 3/25/2005 9:26:06 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, effarbee@verizon.net writes:   based on cost to manufacture and sell from profitably from The Netherlands to dealers in the U.S.A.),     KEY KEY sentence folks.....in ALL of this thread. ducking again. dale  
(back) Subject: Re: New Digital Comparison-Matt's comments Matt Responds From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 07:03:14 EST   In a message dated 3/25/2005 11:41:50 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, ophicleide16@direcway.com writes:   May I just say that the following festival of typefaces and opinions = strikes me as being as confusing (and worthless) as I can imagine     on the contrary, it is that way in the digi world.......confusing, different, mixed and challenging. As a point of fact for anyone interested, The new Allen remember has 4 stop lists. The new Rodgers (ending with 8) has 4 stop lists. The Johannus organs have 2 stop lists. The New Ahlborn-Galanti has 5 stop lists where you can go to French, = English with the a stop on the back next to the couplers. EVERYONE is evolving and improving. TOO much info for the average bear organist. Make a list, create an organ and let it do its job. dale  
(back) Subject: Re: New Digital Comparison-Matt's comments From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 07:09:58 EST   In a message dated 3/26/2005 12:48:04 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, nijhuis@email.com writes:   Back to the beginning: That's sort of what happend with Baldwin when COS =   (convieniently located in Baldwin, WI) assumed the name.     Duane Kuhn, BOUGHT, I repeat, BOUGHT the church organ division from Karen =   Hendricks and the Baldwin Piano and Organ Company. It was a viable and successful company on its own until a year or so ago. i have no idea what = happened to close it. as to Baldwin, WI, that HAPPENS to be home to the family of Mr. Kuhn's wife, and Mr Kuhn was from Red Wing MN. SO, COS went there instead of = staying in Cinti. Rumors and innuendos are so much more fun than facts. Anyway, putting the =   Baldwin name on Viscount is not any different that the myriad of brands = selling J organs under a different label.(at least for a period of time.) Being = an OEM really helped get the word out about Johannus. God, i love this business. I think i will run for President of the AGO. laughing my fat little behind off. Thank you all for this thread. dale in Florida playing an orphaned Austin weekly  
(back) Subject: Re: New Digital Comparison-Matt's comments Matt Responds From: "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net> Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 06:15:26 -0600   Hello, PipeChatters: =20 Dale said: =20 > EVERYONE is evolving and improving.   Hey, I was the first one who said that the=20 E-org builders would get better, and better,=20 and better, . . .more than 2 years ago. =20 This includes all of the E-org builders. =20 Welcome to the club, Dale. <large smile> =20 I think it will be interesting to see what=20 each of us do to move much closer to making=20 sounds that imitate wind blown pipes, . . .as=20 far as the technologies used will allow. =20 F. Richard Burt =20 =20 ..
(back) Subject: Re: New Digital Comparison From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 05:04:47 -0800 (PST)   Hello,   Worry not people!   It's only a matter of time before ALL the digital organs are made in Belarus or China!!!!   That should produce some interesting stop-lists.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK (cynically)     PS: What do the Chinese call their best plates?     __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Make Yahoo! your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs  
(back) Subject: Decline in organ building?? From: "Bob Elms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au> Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 21:36:55 +0800   In 1950 in my area there were about 50 pipe organs; there are now about = 110. That is decline???? The number of elecronic organs also has escalated maybe partly because = they have been replacing ancient reed organs. Bob Elms. ----- Original Message ----- From: John L. Speller To: PipeChat Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 1:15 PM Subject: Re: New Digital Comparison-Matt's comments Matt Responds     Oh yes they are! If you look at the figures for organ construction you will see that although the majority of instruments built today are electronic, the numbers of electronic as well as pipe instruments are declining. Praise bands ... Declining church attendance ... Whatever, = but inescapable.       -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.3 - Release Date: 25/03/2005    
(back) Subject: Re: Decline in organ building?? From: "Paul Smith" <kipsmith@getgoin.net> Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 07:41:47 -0600   You are confusing "organ building" (whose numbers may be declining) with "organ owning" (which accumulates all extant organs, and is still increasing). If you are the manufacturer, you find all those old organs = are your most serious competition. To a builder, only new sales matter. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Elms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org>; <PIPORG-L@listserv.albany.edu> Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 7:36 AM Subject: Decline in organ building??     > In 1950 in my area there were about 50 pipe organs; there are now about > 110. That is decline???? > The number of elecronic organs also has escalated maybe partly because > they have been replacing ancient reed organs. > Bob Elms. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: John L. Speller > To: PipeChat > Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 1:15 PM > Subject: Re: New Digital Comparison-Matt's comments Matt Responds > > > Oh yes they are! If you look at the figures for organ construction you =   > will see that although the majority of instruments built today are > electronic, the numbers of electronic as well as pipe instruments are > declining. Praise bands ... Declining church attendance ... Whatever, =   > but inescapable. > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.3 - Release Date: 25/03/2005 > > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > > >      
(back) Subject: Re: Walter 's Comments From: "Mattcinnj" <mattcinnj@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 05:42:07 -0800 (PST)   Walter, In this particular case, although I am in no position to comment on = exactly what the Johannus dealer did or did not do ,,, I can say, that = something has been lost in the translation regarding the various = Intonations (the 2 that you mention). Each Intonation has complete sets of = samples, rank by rank. From your part of the country, I can surmise that = the dealer in question is not one of the more experienced dealers and = that should be taken into consideration when using this example. This being said, neither this particular dealer, nor any dealer that I = know of, actually knows WHICH of the 18,000 samples that Johannus = advertises it has goes into each organ model. In the case of Reeds, it is = very, very obvious that these are different samples ....... since we know = how Baroque reeds differ tonally so much from our American Romantic (the = other Intonation). The same is true for the Strings and the Principles. = For Flutes, the difference is not so apparent since it is the degree of = "chiff" that our ears seem most sensitive to. For Mixture work, it is very = difficult to go "rank by rank" and really hear if those higher pitched = samples are different. Just as with the DOVE software, you must have a goodly amount of expertise = using it, to understand what you can and can NOT detect as to sample usage = and response to voicing. With DOVE you can actually see how the samples = are named and it is relatively easy to analyze exactly how many samples = are being used ..... along with how they are being "shared". From your = comments, it sounds to me as though this particular dealer (just like the = majority of Allen, Rodgers, Ahlburne Galanti, Viscount dealers) does not = have this expertise. I do ! If you think I don't, knowing nothing about me ..... there is very = little I can do to change your mind. Your other points are unfortunately all too true about a majority of = dealers for all brands, and even about Corporate Policies both official = and unofficial. The entire E-org industry is viewed by many as a very = dirty and highly competitive market. I'm glad I'm a customer and not a = dealer, and in fact would never be a dealer for ANY brand. I have been = lied to, heard the "competition" being lied about, heard slander, you name = it. There are folks, like me who will not buy a certain brand of E-org, .... = or prefer one brand over another due to what they know to be true from = personal experience ..... and also what they know from research .... and = from trusted "sources" in the industry. The Internet is certainly a help = in doing this research, since there are groups and lists aplenty for what = ever it is you are buying. The comments I post are a result of what I have experienced and = researched, rather extensively over the years. Time will be the final judge as to some of my conclusions regarding this = thread. Also, I should clarify that I was refering to WORLD WIDE market share, = when I mentioned that Allen's classical share was being lost to Johannus. = It is very easy to research what is being reported about Johannus's yearly = increases in dealers and US sales. Another factor ...... if you find out that one E-org builder is laying = folks off, and another has just completed building a new factory, you can = surmise certain things. Likewise, if one company has no debt, and another = one has overhead costs that can never be decreased, ... I think you can = "predict" what is "iffy" or not.     Walter Greenwood <walterg@nauticom.net> wrote: We have one recent installation by Johannus in my immediate area. The church's organ commitee chose Johannus over the organist's vehement objections because they came in at a low, factory-direct price, with a proposal that touted 4 separate specifications, like the Allen Quantum line. When the organ was installed, the organist asked "How do I get the French stoplist?" She was told, "You can't. We have 4 stoplists, but you have to pick two, and that's all you get." Furthermore, they were told that only the reeds change between one stoplist and another because "the flues are all the same anyway." Hmm. I also found out that the commitee was told several rather dirty lies about the reliability of a nearby Allen that I have been playing regularly for the last 18 years - an instrument that still plays as well today as the day it was made. Is this how they operate in other territories?   - WG   > > >Johannus has picked up % because they have been aggressive in going after =   >the small stuff, like the Opus model and under pricing 4 manuals versus = the >competition by thousands of dollars. Like our farmers, government = subsidies, >however long a time period, sure is helpful to a company. > >dale awaiting service of darknessssssss > > >         ****************************************************************** "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe:       --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
(back) Subject: Re: New Digital Comparison-Matt's comments From: "jch" <opus1100@catoe.org> Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 07:40:09 -0600   At 05:28 PM 3/25/05, you wrote: >Matt, unless u have concrete information that you can share with us, that =   >the statement above is legitimate, I suggest you appologize to the list >for that comment, I find it very much out of line and hope others do as >well. One of the reasons the other company said they were going out of >business were comments similar to those above     If any of you read Kimberly Austin's email to her representatives. she cited rumors about the health of the company as part of the reason Austin found it difficult to get new business. Rumor mongering can be very dangerous. Matt may be responsible to starting a self-fulfilling prophesy that could bring down Rodgers. = Let's hope NOT. Rodgers builds a fine instrument.   Jon      
(back) Subject: Re: New Digital Comparison-Matt's comments From: "Mattcinnj" <mattcinnj@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 05:53:32 -0800 (PST)   Walter, Just wait and see ! As I said in a previous posting I can never convience you or anyone else = that my conclusions are based upon reliable research, both on a personal = level and via what is easily available throught the Internet. In the case = of Roland, or Sony, or Panasonic etc. research about their financials, = market share etc. gives you as accurate an indication of what decisions = their managment must make as you can get. Yes, I know figures can be = cooked ! Matt   Walter Greenwood <walterg@nauticom.net> wrote: Matt, do you have some inside information from Roland management?   >"I disagree on the matter of choosing Rodgers over Johannus for several = reasons. > Right off the bat, it is very "iffy" that Rodgers (never profitable for = Roland) will be around for much longer. " >         ****************************************************************** "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe:     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
(back) Subject: Re: Trends From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 09:01:20 EST   Justin Hartz wrote: I see a "trend" which indicates to me that we need to educate organists in appreciating a church's organ and not pushing their need to have the "latest thing" to play on Sunday morning.       First, however, these so called "organists" need to be musically trained. =   The people who are pushing notes on Sunday mornings usually don't know = enough about the instrument to know any better. What attracts them to digital = organs are the gizmos because they attract people who can't play the pedals, some = of them come with built in sequencers for which you can buy pre-programmed = music so you don't have to learn any big music--just hit play and you can have = the Widor Toccata for the Easter postlude. Left-foot Lucy would eat that up. =     On a pipe organ, you are required to have a basic understanding (at least = in theory) of registration, even with a sequencer, there is no pre-programmed =   music. One must record it into the sequencer themself, or have a friend = do it. There is usually no "auto pedal" feature--I say usually, because sometimes = the solid-state systems offer them, but the pipe organ builders don't put the piston to turn it on anywhere on the console. (Smart move, I think--go = ahead and flame me if you want to)   Not that there is anything wrong with digital organs. I've played some = that were truly beautiful organs. The Marshall-Ogletree Epiphany Organ at = Trinity Church, Wall Street is amazing. That organ is beyond compare with ANY digital organ I've ever seen, played or heard. I've played Rodgers and = Allen organs that were very nice, too, in situations where pipes just wouldn't have fit = or a church didn't have the funds for upkeep of a pipe organ. NOTE: THIS IS NOT MEANT TO START A WAR ON PIPES VS. DIGITALS I feel that there is a time and a place for a digital organ, but as Justin =   said, people tend to be drawn to them for the wrong reasons.   It always pains me to see a pipe organ ripped out and replaced with a = digital when no other investigation has been made. Some churches want new instruments and don't have the budget for a new pipe organ. Architects = build churches without chambers (this was done at a church where some friends of mine are =   members). There is absolutely no room for pipes unless the church bought = a small cabinet organ and placed it in the corner, and then it would be 20 feet = away from the choir. What sense would that make? The problem was that the untrained part-time music director at the church didn't give any thought = to this, and hence, any input from him was totally useless.   We need to educate because there are too many people out there who, by no fault of their own, are serving in churches without any education. They = get called on for advice because they are the "musician." However the advice = they give is often poor at best. What can we do to help train them that a few = minor repairs of the pipe organ is all that may be needed?   I've got friends who are in management positions with both Allen and = Rodgers, and I may be stepping out on a limb here, but I would guess that THEY = would say that PIPE ORGAN should be first choice. I've talked with them about = it. Why do you think that they are pushing combo jobs so much for = rebuilds...keep the existing small-mid sized organ, and just add digital voices to fill in = the gaps. However, we all know that not everyone can have a pipe organ, so = they offer options. What gives the companies the bad name are the reps who = actually do the selling--some of them are known to come in and give churches = reports on the quality of the pipe organ. That's what gets everyone in trouble. = An untrained musician, or one who doesn't know anything about a pipe organ, = can easily fall prey to their tactics. A church board who REALLY doesn't know =   anything about a pipe organ, much less care, can really fall prey.   We need to educate. As professional organists we need to reach out. The = AGO has POE+ for adults. Encourage your chapter to consider having one to = show area pianists and untrained organists more about the instrument. It might =   encourage them to learn more or take lessons. It's a long road but little = by little, if we each do our part, we can share our knowledge with others and = mentor other musicians. I all of us just take one untrained organist under our = wing, we've already doubled the knowledge base.   Just some ramblings on this Holy Saturday morning...   Monty Bennett  
(back) Subject: Re: New Digital Comparison-Matt's comments Matt Responds From: "Mattcinnj" <mattcinnj@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 06:01:58 -0800 (PST)   John, I was talking Worldwide. I know what is going on in the US, but the = continent of Europe is responsible for increasing sales of classical = E-orgs, as is Japan. One of Johannus's strengths is that they have many = affordable models for the home market. The US classical market is a "tough = sell" and is shrinking ..... but Allen is doing well in the home Theatre = Organ market. Matt   "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net> wrote: Oh yes they are! If you look at the figures for organ construction you = will see that although the majority of instruments built today are = electronic, the numbers of electronic as well as pipe instruments are = declining. Praise bands ... Declining church attendance ... Whatever, = but inescapable. John Speller ----- Original Message ----- From: Mattcinnj To: PipeChat Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 6:24 PM Subject: Re: New Digital Comparison-Matt's comments Matt Responds     I made the "iffy" comment for several reasons ... and I do not equate it = in anyway to what just happened with Austin. They are different "worlds" = entirely. The entire pipe organ industry has been in decline for decades = now, the E-org builders are not in the same situation.     --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
(back) Subject: Re: New Digital Comparison-Matt's comments From: "Mattcinnj" <mattcinnj@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 06:07:18 -0800 (PST)   Jan, I did not wish to mention this factor, but since you have brought it up = ......... from what I have heard from "the competition" and "my sources" = this is an example of very, very poor decision making. A real mis-step. Matt   Jan Nijhuis <nijhuis@email.com> wrote: Makes me wonder why an "iffy" company would go out of it's way to hire the = top brass from a competitor (Duane Kuhn and Church Organ Systems = respectivly) to head up marketing. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.
(back) Subject: Re: New Digital Comparison-Matt's comments From: "Stephen Best" <stevebest@usadatanet.net> Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 09:14:21 -0500   Is there ANYONE out there who has access to hard figures and/or documentable evidence to support the opinions we've been reading? The subject is interesting, but I've seen precious little that qualifies as being more than rumor or innuendo.   Steve Best in Utica, NY  
(back) Subject: Re: Thanks Jon ... From: "Mattcinnj" <mattcinnj@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 07:31:40 -0800 (PST)   Hi Jon, I'm laughing about this and hope others are also ! Although you can't tell = from my posts, I'm under no dillusions regarding what I can and can not = accomplish by posting here. Have a good one. Matt   jch <opus1100@catoe.org> wrote: Matt may be responsible to starting a self-fulfilling prophesy that could bring down Rodgers. = Let's hope NOT. Rodgers builds a fine instrument.   Jon           --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
(back) Subject: RE: New Digital Comparison From: "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 04:15:51 +1200     >PS: What do the Chinese call their best plates?   Tectonic? Dental?   And then there's the exercise freaks - "p(i)lates"   Ross      
(back) Subject: Re: New Digital Comparison-Matt's comments Matt Responds From: <Myosotis51@aol.com> Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 11:52:57 EST   Hello Keys4bach@aol.com,     In reference to your comment: Allen really doesn't support older models. They MAKE the customer UPDATE........not the same thing. Or, the new stuff is really old stuff = tweaked. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Hmmmmm...... so those WEREN'T new tubes the Allen service rep installed = into my former church's 50's Allen? Just sayin'....... Victoria  
(back) Subject: Music staves on post-it notes. From: "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca> Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 12:32:03 -0500   It went through my mind, that when I was at school, I had a pen that would =   do all the five lines at once, - rather more like a multiple pen nib, - do =   they still make them now?   As I recall, it made music lessons a lot easier, and I cannot remember = ever having to buy staved manuscript paper.   If they do still sell such pens, it would be easy to use whatever size post-it notes for your needs.   Now, I am talking about over 60 years ago!!   Bob Conway    
(back) Subject: Re: New Digital Comparison-Matt's comments From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 12:38:14 EST   When Jimbo Hack bought out the processor division of Orgtronix in = 1997, everbody knew that Mylar Dentburn had sabotaged the ChorusBuilder = software, which is why all of the mixtures in the Florence Foster-Jenkins Signature = Series ended up with flat 21sts in them. Dentburn had developed the software and engineered some kind of "lockout" so that "pitch viruses" could not be = corrected. Elmer Sniveley, who was the Utah rep for Electrochurch Systems of the Netherlands, sued Hack, because he was told that if he sold more than one instrument a year, he would be made a partner in Orgtronix. A friend of a friend told me that his sister is a paralegal for a firm =   that is involved in a class action suit against Electrochurch. From what I =   understand, there is a module that is supposed to change the stoplists and =   temperaments of their Pijp-Lijk Series instruments from Stellwagen to = Hinners with the stomp of a toestud. Due to Dentburn's criminal activities, however, the instruments simply explode. So far, twenty-eight organists and seven = manatees have been killed, and Sniveley is being blamed. Despite all of this strife, Orgtronix shows a total of 117 models on their website, and ElectroChurch lists 238.