PipeChat Digest #5232 - Saturday, March 26, 2005
 
Re: New Digital Comparison-Matt's comments Matt Responds
  by "Ray Ahrens" <ray_ahrens@msn.com>
Re: Pens for staves
  by <MUSCUR@aol.com>
Pipe Organs a dying breed?  I think not...
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
Re: Pens for staves
  by "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com>
Digital Organ discussion
  by "george pendergraft" <gmpender@integrity.com>
Re: Digital Organ discussion
  by "jch" <opus1100@catoe.org>
RE: Digital Organ discussion
  by "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
jongen toccata from sym. conc.
  by <BlueeyedBear@aol.com>
Re: Decline in organ building??
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Digital Organ discussion
  by "Charles & Maria DeVita-Krug" <cdkrug@worldnet.att.net>
Not another salvo in the current flame war - just a question
  by "Walter Greenwood" <walterg@nauticom.net>
Easter Music - Northminster Ch., Monroe, LA
  by "Sand Lawn" <glawn@jam.rr.com>
Re: New Digital Comparison-Matt's comments
  by "Walter Greenwood" <walterg@nauticom.net>
Re: Digital Organ discussion
  by "N. Russotto" <ravenrockdesigns@gmail.com>
RE: Decline in organ building??
  by "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
Re: Digital Organ discussion
  by "jch" <opus1100@catoe.org>
Re: New Digital Comparison-Matt's comments
  by "Malcolm Kogut" <mkogut@capital.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: New Digital Comparison-Matt's comments Matt Responds From: "Ray Ahrens" <ray_ahrens@msn.com> Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 13:07:24 -0600   Could not copy the message to the digest, there was no plain text part
(back) Subject: Re: Pens for staves From: <MUSCUR@aol.com> Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 14:26:38 EST   "Bob Conway" _conwayb@sympatico.ca_ (mailto:conwayb@sympatico.ca) writes:   It went through my mind, that when I was at school, I had a pen that = would do all the five lines at once, - rather more like a multiple pen nib, - = do they still make them now?   I haven't seen them available here in the U.S. for about 30 years now, however they are still on sale in the music stores in Europe. The latest = version consists of 5 very small ball point pens mounted together in a plastic housing made in Japan that I saw for sale in Amsterdam, Paris and Munich = as recently as last year. I didn't go for it since the refill problem would = surface very quickly. The Amsterdam music shop next to the Concertgebouw has the = most popular version- a 5 point dip pen nib that looks by design to have been = in production for at least 150 years. You can find these in stationery = stores, too, throughout Europe and there is even a trendy plastic boxed version = with spiffy graphics.   Dennis James Silent Film Concerts P.O. Box 2072 Tacoma, Washington 98401-2072 USA 253-573-1683 / _muscur@aol.com_ (mailto:muscur@aol.com) Next tour performances: March 28-Uptown Theatre, Calgary, CANADA - SHOW PEOPLE (1928, Marion = Davies) April 10-Lafayette Theatre, Suffern, NY - ROBIN HOOD (1922, Douglas Fairbanks)        
(back) Subject: Pipe Organs a dying breed? I think not... From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 14:45:05 EST   I hardly think that the pipe organ is a declining when churches are = appearing monthly in The American Organist magazine with stoplists for new organs. Organ builders are advertising that they've built new instruments, so = there can't be a decline. Digital organ builders are getting into the pipe organ = market doing combo jobs, but I know of several churches that have just signed = pipe organ contracts. I only know of one that has recently signed a digital contract, and that's because of space and money issues--and it's just a = temporary instrument.   One company I know (cough, cough LOL) is currently building a 4 manual, a = 5 manual, and has has contracts for several other LARGE organs, and has just =   completed large 5 manual instrument. Casavant just completed a large 4 = manual in Hickory, NC (see the cover of last month's TAO), and is building the large =   organ for Brick Presbyterian Church in NYC. Look at the website of Fisk and see what they've got lined up. Look at = what Sebastian has lined up at his shop. That's not even mentioning what many, =   many other builders are doing.   I know locally of a church that has a fine pipe organ and wants a small chapel pipe organ, and possibly a balcony organ. Digital is OUT of the = question for them. Those who want pipes will always get pipes.   People will put their priorities where they want them. My church had a = pipe organ from it's inception in 1890. Mind you, it was a small stock model = track er (Hinners, I think), then when the church grew and built the existing building in the 70's, they got a Rodgers. No one was really happy with = it, and they always wanted another pipe organ--the building was built for a pipe organ--and they eventually got one. Our Pastor said that only a pipe = organ would do in the new church because it was the only instrument worthy of a magnificent sanctuary and that getting a pipe organ was his stamp of approval on a "traditional" music program.   I think most people are of that same sort of mindset, but are scared by = the rumors they hear of what churches spend on pipe organs. They don't know = that they can get used pipe organs for a fraction of what a new one costs. St. =   John's Presbyterian in Reno, NV (Is that the correct church?) is replacing = their electronic organ with an Aeolian-Skinner pipe organ. It's not new, but it's a pipe organ. Look at all the other churches who = have bought organs from The Organ Clearinghouse and rebuilt/enlarged them and = had new organs for a fraction of the cost of a new instrument. Pipes can be = done WHEN someone wants to.     Monty Bennett  
(back) Subject: Re: Pens for staves From: "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com> Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 04:04:51 +0800   I would think that a teacher's supply house like Firenshiphouse would carry= them ... but then again, in a "free pdf manuscript paper and Xerox(r) ever= ything" society, there probably isn't much call for them even in the educat= ion community. As I recall, the pen cartridges in the ones I used way back = when weren't of the higest quality and it was generally easier to use a goo= d pen and a straight edge.       ----- Original Message ----- From: MUSCUR@aol.com To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: Re: Pens for staves Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 14:26:38 EST   >=20 >=20 >=20 > "Bob Conway" _conwayb@sympatico.ca_ (mailto:conwayb@sympatico.ca) writes: >=20 > It went through my mind, that when I was at school, I had a pen that wou= ld > do all the five lines at once, - rather more like a multiple pen nib, - = do > they still make them now? >=20 > I haven't seen them available here in the U.S. for about 30 years now, > however they are still on sale in the music stores in Europe. The=20 > latest version > consists of 5 very small ball point pens mounted together in a plastic > housing made in Japan that I saw for sale in Amsterdam, Paris and Munich= as > recently as last year. I didn't go for it since the refill=20 > problem would surface > very quickly. The Amsterdam music shop next to the Concertgebouw=20 > has the most > popular version- a 5 point dip pen nib that looks by design to have been= in > production for at least 150 years. You can find these in stationery sto= res, > too, throughout Europe and there is even a trendy plastic boxed version = with > spiffy graphics. >=20 >=20 > Dennis James > Silent Film Concerts > P.O. Box 2072 > Tacoma, Washington 98401-2072 USA > 253-573-1683 / _muscur@aol.com_ (mailto:muscur@aol.com) >=20 > Next tour performances: > March 28-Uptown Theatre, Calgary, CANADA - SHOW PEOPLE (1928, Marion Dav= ies) > April 10-Lafayette Theatre, Suffern, NY - ROBIN HOOD (1922, Douglas > Fairbanks)       -- Jan Nijhuis nijhuis@email.com   --=20 ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm    
(back) Subject: Digital Organ discussion From: "george pendergraft" <gmpender@integrity.com> Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 15:16:02 -0500   All,     I have been following this digital organ thread with interest, as my = church is looking to purchase an organ. Of course we would prefer pipes, but = this is not really in the picture for us, for a number of good reasons, at = least until we build the larger permanent church which is in our future plans, = at which time we will want to go to pipes.     In the meantime, I saw one person's comment >>> I happen to like the European voices of Johannus, others have a preference for Rodgers and = still others are enamored with Allen and the same all down the line. <<<     And was wondering, does anyone have knowledge / experience of the Phoenix organs? Would those be "down the line" or "up the line" I wonder?     Thanks for your patience   Martha        
(back) Subject: Re: Digital Organ discussion From: "jch" <opus1100@catoe.org> Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 14:24:09 -0600   At 02:16 PM 3/26/05, George Pendergrafft wrote: >Of course we would prefer pipes, but this is not really in the picture = for >us, for a number of good reasons, at least until we build the larger >permanent church which is in our future plans, at which time we will want =   >to go to pipes.   Big question...why not now. There are many free standing pipe organs = (check out Organ Clearing House) begging for new homes. Many of them occupy a small footprint as far as space is concerned. =   Check them out before you completely rule out going with the REAL THING.   Jon      
(back) Subject: RE: Digital Organ discussion From: "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 09:30:37 +1200   >And was wondering, does anyone have knowledge / experience of the = Phoenix organs?=A0 Would those be =93down the line=94 or =93up the line=94 I = wonder?=A0=20   I've only heard a Phoenix on CD, not in a building, and it was a very = good sound indeed, but admittedly the instrument was in the west end of a reverberant church though under the gallery and not in it. I'd put them = very high up on a list of electronic instruments.   Ross    
(back) Subject: jongen toccata from sym. conc. From: <BlueeyedBear@aol.com> Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 16:28:37 EST   HELP! i'm looking for a copy of a transcription of the toccata from = jongen's symphonie concertante. i know virgil fox made one, and it seems like = there's another one out there, but i can't remember who did it. anyway, does = anyone know where to find such a beast?   thanks,   scot  
(back) Subject: Re: Decline in organ building?? From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 13:31:36 -0800 (PST)   Hello,   In my area, circa 1950, there were probably in excess of 100 pipe organs.   There are now about twenty!   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK     --- Bob Elms <bobelms@westnet.com.au> wrote: > In 1950 in my area there were about 50 pipe organs; > there are now about 110. > That is decline????     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Digital Organ discussion From: "Charles & Maria DeVita-Krug" <cdkrug@worldnet.att.net> Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 16:49:51 -0500   On Sat, Mar 26, 2005 at 02:24:09PM -0600, jch wrote: > At 02:16 PM 3/26/05, George Pendergrafft wrote: > >Of course we would prefer pipes, but this is not really in the picture = for > >us, for a number of good reasons, at least until we build the larger > >permanent church which is in our future plans, at which time we will = want > >to go to pipes. > > Big question...why not now. There are many free standing pipe organs = (check > out Organ Clearing House) begging for new > homes. Many of them occupy a small footprint as far as space is = concerned. > Check them out before you completely rule > out going with the REAL THING. > > Jon >   Okay, say you buy an organ, either intact or basket case, depending on your time and inclincation.   How do you get it installed and voiced?   Not like I'm gonna convince SWMBO to let me have one any time soon . . just askin' . . . :)    
(back) Subject: Not another salvo in the current flame war - just a question From: "Walter Greenwood" <walterg@nauticom.net> Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 16:40:33 -0500   Colleagues,   I both love it and hate it when this happens. Love it because I do learn a thing or two. Hate it because these religious arguments are otherwise pretty much a waste of time. I could be practicing instead. What matters to me, whether it has pipes or chips, whether is is Pennsylvanian or Dutch or Chinese, is how it sounds, how well it functions, and how the company will treat me when it breaks. Every manufacturer has representatives here and there who will use tactics I regard as unethical when they get desperate. That is not really unexpected. (Yeah, I know - I brought it up. Sorry.) I already know everything I need to know about brand A. As of now I have yet to hear in person the very latest from brands J and R, but I will rectify that ASAP. I fully expect to be impressed. Can anyone here enlighten me on the availablility and effectiveness of local technical service in the U.S.A. for brands J and R?   - WG        
(back) Subject: Easter Music - Northminster Ch., Monroe, LA From: "Sand Lawn" <glawn@jam.rr.com> Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 15:50:20 -0600   Northminster (Baptist) Church Monroe, LA March 27, 2004   The Preludes - (the choir) Surrexit Christus Hodie - Samuel Scheidt Easter Anthem - Philip E. Baker I Know My Redeemer Livith - G.F.Handel Worthy Is The Lamb - G.F.Handel The Prologue O Filii et Filiae - arr. Hal Hopson The Processional Hymn Christ The Lord Is Risen Today - EASTER HYMN The Introit Salvation is Created - Tschesnekoff Hymn Hail, O Festal Day - SALVA FESTA DIES The Anthem Hallelujah - The Mount of Olives - Ludwig von Beethoven The Communion Anthem Alleluia - Henryk Gorecki The Response=20 Praise God From Whom All Blessings Flow LAAST UNS ERFREUEN Recessional Hymn Lift High the Cross - CRUCIFER Postlude =20 Laudes - Sand Lawn   May all have a joyous Easter celebration!   Sand Lawn
(back) Subject: Re: New Digital Comparison-Matt's comments From: "Walter Greenwood" <walterg@nauticom.net> Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 16:46:42 -0500   Funny, Seb. Not sure what your point is, but thanks for the laugh.   ><TubaMagna@aol.com> > > When Jimbo Hack bought out the processor division of Orgtronix in = 1997, >everbody knew that Mylar Dentburn had sabotaged the ChorusBuilder = software, >which is why all of the mixtures in the Florence Foster-Jenkins Signature = Series >ended up with flat 21sts in them. Dentburn had developed the software and =   >engineered some kind of "lockout" so that "pitch viruses" could not be = corrected. > Elmer Sniveley, who was the Utah rep for Electrochurch Systems of the =   >Netherlands, sued Hack, because he was told that if he sold more than one =   >instrument a year, he would be made a partner in Orgtronix. > A friend of a friend told me that his sister is a paralegal for a = firm >that is involved in a class action suit against Electrochurch. From what = I >understand, there is a module that is supposed to change the stoplists = and >temperaments of their Pijp-Lijk Series instruments from Stellwagen to = Hinners with the >stomp of a toestud. Due to Dentburn's criminal activities, however, the >instruments simply explode. So far, twenty-eight organists and seven = manatees have >been killed, and Sniveley is being blamed. > Despite all of this strife, Orgtronix shows a total of 117 models on >their website, and ElectroChurch lists 238. >        
(back) Subject: Re: Digital Organ discussion From: "N. Russotto" <ravenrockdesigns@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 16:43:08 -0500   SWMBO? Usually I'm pretty good w/ these, but what is this?!?   nfr     On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 16:49:51 -0500, Charles & Maria DeVita-Krug <cdkrug@worldnet.att.net> wrote: > On Sat, Mar 26, 2005 at 02:24:09PM -0600, jch wrote: > > At 02:16 PM 3/26/05, George Pendergrafft wrote: > > >Of course we would prefer pipes, but this is not really in the = picture for > > >us, for a number of good reasons, at least until we build the larger > > >permanent church which is in our future plans, at which time we will = want > > >to go to pipes. > > > > Big question...why not now. There are many free standing pipe organs = (check > > out Organ Clearing House) begging for new > > homes. Many of them occupy a small footprint as far as space is = concerned. > > Check them out before you completely rule > > out going with the REAL THING. > > > > Jon > > > > Okay, say you buy an organ, either intact or basket case, depending on > your time and inclincation. > > How do you get it installed and voiced? > > Not like I'm gonna convince SWMBO to let me have one any time soon . . > just askin' . . . > :) > > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > >     -- Nicholas F. Russotto Somers, Connecticut Moderator/Owner: Monarch of Music http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/monarch_of_music/  
(back) Subject: RE: Decline in organ building?? From: "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 10:05:29 +1200     >In my area, circa 1950, there were probably in excess of 100 pipe organs. There are now about twenty!   Same here in NZ. There used to be regular major rebuilds and new instruments. There is now a steady decline, and even an overhaul is = regarded as a significant event. Instruments are being given away or sold, not only because churches are declining in numbers and therefore budget possibilities, but because people associate the organ, electronic or pipe, with the "dirge sound of boring funerals". The number of people in the = pipe organ industry, too, has substantially declined and is now far less than = it was in 1900 when the population was about a bit less than a quarter what = it is now.   In Colin's UK, you know there is a big decline when major firms like Rushworth & Dreaper, Hill Norman & Beard, J.W.Walker et al. have all disappeared in the last decade. Countless smaller firms have gone, too, though admittedly some smaller ones have begun.   It's no longer a battle between tracker and electric fans, classic versus Romantic, or even between pipes and electronics, but the sheer survival of the organ at all as a musical instrument as part of our general culture. = In not too many years, as I see it here, the organ will still take its place = in prestige parishes and cathedrals, but will otherwise disappear as the parishes close down and we older folks die off.   Just think. Way back in 1906 in Wellington here, the Town Hall cost 15,000 pounds and the organ 5,000 pounds, a 4/57 N&B. In 1912 a newspaper owner = in Auckland gave a 4/60 N&B to the city on condition it built a good hall for it. It happily did so. In Dunedin a few years later a 4/61 N&B was = installed in the Town Hall - a very major rebuild of Pattman's travelling organ from the UK. Look at the present day: a few years ago, an organ was finally = built in the Christchurch Town Hall after 20 years of intense effort by a few people, and though it's a magnificent Rieger tracker, it is only about 40 stops. Wellington built a huge new concert hall some years ago, too, and though organ chambers were provided at the front of the hall, there is not the slightest interest in getting an organ for it. In Lower Hutt they = bought a large 3m electroid for their new Town Hall a number of years ago. 20 = years later the instrument was sold for less than $300 and it has not been replaced. Hutt Valley High School and Tokoroa High School have both got = rid of their organs, not to be replaced. I could go on, but that is what is happening in the secular world and the church scene is just the same.   Our only biggish organ company in New Zealand, the South Island Organ Company, relies on big rebuilds in Australia to retain its dozen-odd employees. The other companies, about 4 of them, are of only 1 or two men.   Fighting about getting the latest, or whatever, does no good to the cause = of the organ at all. It would help if the instrument owners and the organists started a campaign for the organ as a fun sound and also did a lot of encouraging of people singing together, especially singing stuff that CAN = be sung and not merely crooned by a handful to 2nd-rate pop tunes with a too-simple but syncopated guitar background.   Ross    
(back) Subject: Re: Digital Organ discussion From: "jch" <opus1100@catoe.org> Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 16:04:10 -0600   At 03:43 PM 3/26/05, you wrote: > > Okay, say you buy an organ, either intact or basket case, depending on > > your time and inclincation. > > > > How do you get it installed and voiced?   Believe it or not...there are real people out there who are capable of doing these things correctly....you are probably right in your conclusion that your SWMBO would not let you spend her money on that sort of thing.   The original post was in response to whether a church would have = sufficient space and inclination to install a pipe organ. It is assumed it would be done professionally. It is not a job for amateurs unless it is a hobby project.    
(back) Subject: Re: New Digital Comparison-Matt's comments From: "Malcolm Kogut" <mkogut@capital.net> Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 17:04:40 -0500   My parish compared Rodgers, Allen and Johannus. We found the Johannus to be of inferior construction, we could only demo two older models because there are not many around. We had to drive 300 miles. And, we were told that it could be installed in one day. The price was considerably higher, too.   The Rodgers was a great instrument.   Galanti never got back to us.   We are going to purchase a Quantum 275 from Allen. The installation will be superior, the instrument has been on loan to us for seven months (so they could demo it to other churches), construction is of high quality, and we can customize it up the wazoo. Service, dedication, morality, honor, and quality installation by the local dealer was a big incentive.   -Malcolm. mkogut@capital.net Rotterdam, NY 518-356-2251