PipeChat Digest #5240 - Monday, March 28, 2005
 
Re: Today's Music
  by "Cole" <rcolev@woh.rr.com>
RE: music for sunday after easter ???
  by "Dominic Scullion" <dominicscullion@email.com>
Thanks
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
The T word.
  by "Walter Greenwood" <walterg@nauticom.net>
Re:E-org financials
  by "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com>
Re: Moeller 4 Rank Artiste
  by "Lee Clark" <lnj1981@yahoo.com>
Re: Digital Organ discussion
  by "Walter Greenwood" <walterg@nauticom.net>
Re: Today's Music
  by "Walter Greenwood" <walterg@nauticom.net>
Re:E-org financials
  by "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu>
Re: Thanks(Lord's Prayer)
  by <DERREINETOR@aol.com>
Re: Moeller 4 Rank Artiste
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Re: Lord's Prayer
  by "littlebayus@yahoo.com" <littlebayus@yahoo.com>
Re: Moeller 4 Rank Artiste
  by "Mattcinnj" <mattcinnj@yahoo.com>
Composer J.B. Litzau (1822-93)
  by "Robert Lind" <lindr@core.com>
Re: E-org financials
  by "Russ Greene" <rggreene2@shaw.ca>
Re: New Digital Comparison
  by "Russ Greene" <rggreene2@shaw.ca>
Re: New Digital Comparison-Matt's comments  Matt Responds
  by "Russ Greene" <rggreene2@shaw.ca>
PipeChat IRC this evening,
  by "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca>
RE: Unsympathetic Restorations
  by "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
Re: E-org financials
  by "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net>
Re: E-org financials
  by "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Today's Music From: "Cole" <rcolev@woh.rr.com> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 11:44:29 -0500   BlueeyedBear wrote: >we had a baptism service in which the entire congregation was >baptized. while the hymn was being sung, the pastor walked the aisles >with a bowl of water and a conifer twig... she dipped the twig in the >bowl and then flung the water in the air,   Isn't that called "Asperges" from Psalm 51:7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow. Or in the = Vulgate (as I remember it): asparges me hysopo et mundabor lavabis me et super nivem dealbabor   Cole Votaw -- Springfield, Ohio, USA     -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: 3/27/2005      
(back) Subject: RE: music for sunday after easter ??? From: "Dominic Scullion" <dominicscullion@email.com> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 17:51:13 +0100   Prelude - Variations on processional hymn   Postlude - Chorale from Suite Gothique- L.B.     _____   From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of BlueeyedBear@aol.com Sent: 27 March 2005 22:57 To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: music for sunday after easter ???     what's everyone playing for prelude & postlude NEXT sunday?    
(back) Subject: Thanks From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 12:04:40 EST   Thank you to those who sent Lord's Prayer suggestions. Has anyone on this list WRITTEN ONE??????? just wondering. dale in Florida  
(back) Subject: The T word. From: "Walter Greenwood" <walterg@nauticom.net> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 12:05:39 -0500   Thank you, thank you, Tom. I have a dream. I dream of a day when Pipechatters will no longer will no longer use the T word - unless, of course, they are referring to a device that cooks bread.   - WG   >Tom Hoehn: > >but what kind of organ did they buy? I've never played a toaster.. > >Tom Hoehn, Organist >        
(back) Subject: Re:E-org financials From: "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 12:05:44 -0500   At 06:13 PM 2005-03-27, you wrote: >Dear List: > >I may well be wrong. But, I believe Allen is a publicly traded company. >So, if you care to you may go to: http://www.business.com and look for >Allen financials. (right?) > >Rodgers is owned by Roland. Their information is not public. However, I = do >NOT believe the intention is to close Rodgers anytime soon. Refocus, yes. =   >(They tend to do that often enough.) But, the factory is providing the >product that Roland wants out of the deal. > >AFAIK Allen results for 2003 were something like $60.8 million with 450 >employees; and, Rodgers operations estimated at $6.1 million with 159 >employees. > >Since I have no pony in this race I don't much care about the outcome... > >Wm. G. Chapman >West Point, NY   Hi,   From Allen's financials, they did roughly $21 Million in the organ business in 2004. They did roughly $20.5 million in 2003. In 2004 only 25% of their income was due to the organ business.   I have no knowledge of Rodgers sales, but my guess is that it is higher than the figure you quoted. In the year 2000, it was quoted that Rodgers did about $20 million in sales.   Arie V.      
(back) Subject: Re: Moeller 4 Rank Artiste From: "Lee Clark" <lnj1981@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 09:08:52 -0800 (PST)   Hi Matt: In 1977 I helped an MD acquire a 5.5 Rank Moller for his cabin. I would = love information about the one your church has for sale. I liked the = little Mollers that came from the mid-70's (some of them anyway). Please forward me the information with asking = price please. I have also read your posts, rebuttals and re-rebuttals (are these like = re-redos?). A few years ago I bought a new Rodgers 2-manual job. I was = able to do a side by side with Ahlborn Galanti and COS products. I also = checked out the comparable Allen (yuck! in that line-up at the time). I = wanted to hear and play a Johannus but there is or was no dealer within = 600 miles of where I live so that was out of the question. I liked the = sound of the Galanti almost as well as the Rodgers, but hated the cheapy = feeling console and all its controls from the toe studs to the ridiculous = volume sliders above the great and pedal sections. So, for my home, in = spite of its flaws which are few for practicing the Rodgers seemed like = the best choice even though is was 10-15% more expensive. I have also = been the lead force in putting three Rodgers models in local churches = (they previously had toasters and will always have toasters). Even though = two of the models are approaching 20 years in age we have never had any problem in getting service nor parts for them. Though = nothing major has gone wrong, the few times we have needed service it has = been easy to get at reasonable prices. Again, in the instances above, = Johannus was not considered because they are not easily accessable. Allen = was the other contender in each instance. In each case it lost based on = quality of sound and what I considered to be poor console design and my = utter distaste for the little tombstone stop tabs. Sorry this is so lengthy. Hope to hear from you soon. Lee   Mattcinnj <mattcinnj@yahoo.com> wrote: Hi List, My church is attempting to sell it's 1974 Moeller. I have a detailed = write-up and all the original paperwork. Please email me off-list if you are interested. I can assure anyone who has read the various posts to me, that this is NOT = some plot of mine to continue destroying both the Pipe organ and E-org = Industries in this country. Thanks, Matt     --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!     --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
(back) Subject: Re: Digital Organ discussion From: "Walter Greenwood" <walterg@nauticom.net> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 12:09:54 -0500   And is that supposed to be a good thing?   - WG   >"Charles & Maria DeVita-Krug" <cdkrug@worldnet.att.net> > >They managed to avoid the alure of 32' voices[.] >        
(back) Subject: Re: Today's Music From: "Walter Greenwood" <walterg@nauticom.net> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 12:15:03 -0500   Unfortunately, we are getting the video more and more often. My church's "multimedia designer" is getting way out of hand. Every service starts with a damned video, complete with insipid non-music that fades in and out with no beginning or end. Then my prelude is accompanied by the lovely sound of the motorized screen retracting out of the way so the people who paid for it can see the cross again.   -WG   >BlueeyedBear@aol.com >> Is it anything like the Talking Heads' version? > >> Glenda Sutton > >yes, just without the video. > >        
(back) Subject: Re:E-org financials From: "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 12:23:14 -0800   >At 06:13 PM 2005-03-27, you wrote: >>Dear List: >> >>I may well be wrong. But, I believe Allen is a publicly traded >>company. So, if you care to you may go to: http://www.business.com >>and look for Allen financials. (right?)     A few years back, "Bottom Line" magazine listed their stocks as one "to buy". Very favorable report.   John V   Who should have bought... --  
(back) Subject: Re: Thanks(Lord's Prayer) From: <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 12:41:44 EST   Dale,   I have. It is a fairly simple setting, intended for service use, for SATB = and congregation, using the "contemporary" form found in the Book of Common Prayer Rite II Eucharist.   It has never occurred to me to set this for solo voice, as I tend to limit = my sacred composition to what can actually be used in the context of worship = in the Western catholic traditions. It would be interesting to know if other listers HAVE set this for solo voice.   Thanks for asking the question, it'll be fun to find out!   Pax, Bill H. SJE Boston  
(back) Subject: Re: Moeller 4 Rank Artiste From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 13:07:40 EST   In a message dated 3/28/2005 12:10:06 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, lnj1981@yahoo.com writes:   controls from the toe studs to the ridiculous volume sliders above the = great and pedal     which you do not have to use......... dale laughing  
(back) Subject: Re: Lord's Prayer From: "littlebayus@yahoo.com" <littlebayus@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 10:19:56 -0800 (PST)   It seems to me that Mr. Robertson wrote more than one setting...   One seemed to start out in a minor key (I'm guessing E-minor) and another started out in a major key (I'm guessing E-flat major)       --- "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net> wrote: > Hello, PipeChatters: > > A few days ago someone asked for some other settings > > (other than Mallotte) of The Lord's Prayer. > > I remember one that was published by Columbia on > an LP back in about 1963-ish. This was sung by the > Mormon Tabernacle Choir. The setting is mostly > a capella (four parts) and is quite lovely in its > simplicity. > > I asked a friend yesterday, and he said that was by > LeRoy Robertson, and was part of a larger work > in the Mormon tradition. If I understood my friend > correctly, the setting is taken from "Book of Mormon > > Oratorio." [snip]   > I understand that LeRoy Robertson was a faculty > member in the music department at Brigham > University. > > F. Richard Burt     Yes, I too understand that Leroy Robertson was a professor in the department of music at Brigham Young University...   If you have any problem finding these works, why not write the music department at Brigham Young University? or Dr. Rick Elliott, on of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir Organists... I'm pretty sure he could at least tell you the publisher of the works...           Best wishes to all,     Morton Belcher fellow list member..     __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/  
(back) Subject: Re: Moeller 4 Rank Artiste From: "Mattcinnj" <mattcinnj@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 10:20:06 -0800 (PST)   Hi Lee, Thank you for your interest in the Artiste, Here is the info, I alluded = to:   Four rank Moeller Artiste circa 1974 located in Brevard NC. Perfect = working condition, and the Pedal pipe=92s Perflex had been replaced with = leather in 1984. Console has been professionally disconnected with all = wiring labeled. All Moeller paperwork (including blueprints) intact. All = pipe work is atop a cabinet that contains the blower and action. Easily = removable as it sits in an alcove a few feet above the floor. No stairs = involved in removal and full basement access to wiring conduit. Perfect = instrument for home or chapel due to the Dulciana and Pedal Gedeckt. = Console and cabinet are medium oak finish. Ivory keyboards and illuminated = music rack. Great Manual has been "MIDIized" to play a Van Bergan = carillon.   PIPE ANALYSIS:   Gedeckt 16=92 12 pipes   Rohrflote 8=92 80 pipes   Dulciana T.C. 8=92 49 pipes   Principal 4=92 73 pipes   Larigot 1-1/3=92 30 pipes   GREAT DIVISION:   Rohrflote 8   Dulciana 8 ( 1 =96 12 from Rohrflote)   Principal 4   Rohrflote 2   Mixture II   SWELL DIVISION:   Identical to Great except the Larigot replaces the Mixture II   PEDAL DIVISION:   Gedeckt 16   Rohrflote 8   Principal 4   Here are the dimensions:   Width (Depth): 35 "   Length: 6=92 8"   Total Height: Cabinet =96 3=92 2" Pipework: 7=92 8" (Including Stoppers) = ....Total: 10=92 10".   We are in the process of obtaining a photo.   The Organ Clearing House has appraised the organ for $10K . All reasonable = offers will be welcome. ***************************************************** The thread did get rather nutty ! I'm glad you have had good experiences = with the Rodgers organs. I've had 5 Allens and 1 Johannus (only 2.5 years = old). I never got a Rodgers due to my uneasyness with the factors I = mentioned. I know ex-Rodgers dealers who have been troubled so much with = the repair issues .......... they quit. I also know of at least 2 = non-Rodgers dealers that do emergency repairs on older Rodgers. ...... = knowing how to use "make do" parts. I have ALWAYS prefered the sound to = Rodgers to Allen, but was afraid of the repair factor and the lack of = stability, management wise. AG stumbled badly years ago, as did Johannus = by trying to sell too inexpensively ..... with poor build quality. This = has changed dramatically !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Good to hear from you ! Matt   Lee Clark <lnj1981@yahoo.com> wrote: Hi Matt: In 1977 I helped an MD acquire a 5.5 Rank Moller for his cabin. I would = love information about the one your church has for sale. I liked the = little Mollers that came from the mid-70's (some of them anyway). Please forward me the information with asking = price please. I have also read your posts, rebuttals and re-rebuttals (are these like = re-redos?). A few years ago I bought a new Rodgers 2-manual job. I was = able to do a side by side with Ahlborn Galanti and COS products. I also = checked out the comparable Allen (yuck! in that line-up at the time). I = wanted to hear and play a Johannus but there is or was no dealer within = 600 miles of where I live so that was out of the question. I liked the = sound of the Galanti almost as well as the Rodgers, but hated the cheapy = feeling console and all its controls from the toe studs to the ridiculous = volume sliders above the great and pedal sections. So, for my home, in = spite of its flaws which are few for practicing the Rodgers seemed like = the best choice even though is was 10-15% more expensive. I have also = been the lead force in putting three Rodgers models in local churches = (they previously had toasters and will always have toasters). Even though = two of the models are approaching 20 years in age we have never had any problem in getting service nor parts for them. Though = nothing major has gone wrong, the few times we have needed service it has = been easy to get at reasonable prices. Again, in the instances above, = Johannus was not considered because they are not easily accessable. Allen = was the other contender in each instance. In each case it lost based on = quality of sound and what I considered to be poor console design and my = utter distaste for the little tombstone stop tabs. Sorry this is so lengthy. Hope to hear from you soon. Lee   Mattcinnj <mattcinnj@yahoo.com> wrote: Hi List, My church is attempting to sell it's 1974 Moeller. I have a detailed = write-up and all the original paperwork. Please email me off-list if you are interested. I can assure anyone who has read the various posts to me, that this is NOT = some plot of mine to continue destroying both the Pipe organ and E-org = Industries in this country. Thanks, Matt     --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!       --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
(back) Subject: Composer J.B. Litzau (1822-93) From: "Robert Lind" <lindr@core.com> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 12:40:44 -0600   In my searching through stacks of organ music for Easter works I haven't played, I came across Litzau's fugal "Jesus Christus, unser Herr und Heiland" (Easter text) and am wondering how much of his organ music is available today. It appears to me that most if not all of it was = originally published by Breitkopf. Kurt Lueders, editor of my volume (Rob. Forberg edition) in which this piece appears, says of Litzau: "[he] took the emulation of Baroque masters almost to an extreme, mixing Classical strictness with Romantic monumentality." I'd like to obtain some of those monumental works, among which are three sonatas.   If anyone has some of Litzau's pieces lying around in public-domain publications, I should be most interested in getting a copy, and I'm sure = I can reciprocate with interesting organ works of like quality. Please = e-mail me privately.   If you know of recently-published things that are currently available, please respond via the list.   Many thanks, Robert Lind    
(back) Subject: Re: E-org financials From: "Russ Greene" <rggreene2@shaw.ca> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 12:45:35 -0600   Just curious, what do they do for the other 75% of their income?   Russ Greene     On Mar 28, 2005, at 11:05 AM, Arie Vandenberg wrote:   > From Allen's financials, they did roughly $21 Million in the organ > business in 2004. They did roughly $20.5 million in 2003. In 2004 > only 25% of their income was due to the organ business.    
(back) Subject: Re: New Digital Comparison From: "Russ Greene" <rggreene2@shaw.ca> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 13:00:43 -0600   A very interesting instrument. And we know that others like it are available.   But... We would have to build space to house the pipes. We would have to move and rebuild the instrument, most of which would have to be done by professionals, not our own labour. Such professionals may or may not even be available locally - my sense is not even though we do have competent maintenance folks in the city. Even if the organ was free, the cost of the addition alone would be prohibitive, let alone the cost of installing the organ.   We've talked about this kind of option. I can't sell it, even with a sizable, musically-involved and music-loving parish. They want a predictable sound, a firm price, a warranty and dealer support. Buying a used pipe organ offers none of these. And that's a deal-breaker.   Thanks for the thought. If I had the space, I'd take a serious look for a personal instrument.   Russ Greene       On Mar 25, 2005, at 9:54 AM, RonSeverin@aol.com wrote:   > Russ: > > Take a look at this on Ebay. You won't believe what you are > seeing. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? > ViewItem&category=3D16219&item=3D7310677382&r > d=3D1 > > A pipe organ that can be taken for a song and is well maintained. > The church is to be renovated and the organ simply has to go by > June, 2005. At least take a look. > > Ron Severin    
(back) Subject: Re: New Digital Comparison-Matt's comments Matt Responds From: "Russ Greene" <rggreene2@shaw.ca> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 13:16:34 -0600   Don't understand. Just got a MOS board for a 1979 instrument. No=20 hassle, no fuss. No UPDATE! What do you mean?   Russ Greene         On Mar 26, 2005, at 5:56 AM, Keys4bach@aol.com wrote:   > Allen really doesn't support older models.=A0 They MAKE the customer=20=   > UPDATE........not the same thing. Or, the new stuff is really old=20 > stuff tweaked. > =A0=  
(back) Subject: PipeChat IRC this evening, From: "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 14:17:57 -0500   All members of PipeChat are invited to join us in the PipeChat IRC any Friday and Monday evening - beginning at 9.00 PM Eastern Time.   To find out more about the Chat room, or how to get into it, go to PipeChat-L web page at http://www.pipechat.org/   You will find out all you need to know to join us.   Tonight at 9.00 PM, - I hope that we will see you there.   Cheers,   Bob Conway    
(back) Subject: RE: Unsympathetic Restorations From: "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 07:27:30 +1200   >But this business of "keeping things exactly as they were intended" is a bit of a romantic pipe-dream. Even some of the most valuable and authentic old organs in Holland (the one European country I actually know something about) are anything but authentic.   Didn't Flentrop add a large Mixture to the Alkmaar organ?   Hasn't the 18thC pedal been retained at St Valery in Sion, Switzerland?   Hasn't Marmoutier retained its Pedal 16fts?   Hasn't the Tower Ballroom at Blackpool WurliTzer been added to? (Yes, there is no reason to exclude theatre organs from this discussion).   >So perhaps the idea of preservation is based on the notion that, like works of art, organs should be left as they were first intended. Unfortunately, we are talking musical instruments, and it is my own persoanl view that the music, rather than the organ, should come first.   I'll buy into this outlook, happily.   >But isn't that a terribly dangerous notion also, that the organ builder is but a servant to art?   Yes. So, inevitably, conflict.   I always like to make a comparison with architecture, as I may already = have done on this List last year. I doubt if anyone would suggest removing the western towers of Wesminster Abbey, which are of course 18thC and not = Early English at all. I doubt if anyone would seriously consider removing the Abbey's Henry VII Chapel at the east end either. At St Paul's, would = anyone want to junk the high altar and the organ and replace the organ with a = small and hopeless one on a new screen hiding the east end from the nave? Would anyone want to remove the Gothic parts of buildings like the cathedrals of Canterbury, St Albans, Norwich, Peterborough, Gloucester, or to great churches like Tewkesbury Abbey, etc.etc.etc.? No, of course not. Should Ely's Octagon be replaced by a new central tower to match the original? These suggestions are surely ludicrous.   Integrity is all very well, and believe me I know the arguments = thoroughly, but I find no problem with the changes made to many organs or the = buildings they are in. It would be a farce to return the British cathedral organs to what they were pre-mid-19thC, as that would mean no pedal divisions, inadequate power, volume, resources, all of that.   I think of the Christchurch Roman Cathedral Halmshaw 3m tracker organ of = the 1870s yet again, here in NZ. The Gerat is 8 8 8 4 2.2/3 2 IV 8. The Swell = is 16 8 8 4 2 IV 8 8. The Choir is 8 8 4 4 8. The Pedal was merely 16 OpWood and 16Bdn. In the restoration a few years ago the Pedal was enlarged by = the addition of a new slider chest containing Pedal metal Principals at 8, 4 = and IV, and 16 Tbe. I would fight like hell if anyone tried to remove those = new stops on the grounds of integrity, purity, historical accuracy or = whatever.   Even though it is very sensible to be extremely careful what is done to an old organ, as to an old building, there should never be an a priori assumption either that an organ must not be altered or added to; and there should also never be the a priori assumption that's it's OK to do exactly = as each skittish new organist damn well pleases. There may, also, be cases where 100% "no change" should be the policy, but I'd like to see, as a = broad principle, each case to be taken on its merits. As changing musical = demands on instruments are made, so too must instruments sometimes change to meet those musical demands.   Ross    
(back) Subject: Re: E-org financials From: "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 13:24:15 -0600   Hello, PipeChatters:   Caution. Keep in mind that Allen Organ Company has a significant manufacturing operation that produces assemblies and similar products for the communications industries.   That other half probably is factored into the 75% you mentioned, Russ. They are multi-dimensional in their manufacturing.   F. Richard Burt     .. > Just curious, what do they do for the other 75% of their income? > > Russ Greene > > > On Mar 28, 2005, at 11:05 AM, Arie Vandenberg wrote: > > > From Allen's financials, they did roughly $21 Million in the organ > > business in 2004. They did roughly $20.5 million in 2003. In 2004 > > only 25% of their income was due to the organ business. >     ..      
(back) Subject: Re: E-org financials From: "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 14:38:37 -0500   At 01:45 PM 2005-03-28, you wrote: >Just curious, what do they do for the other 75% of their income? > >Russ Greene > > >On Mar 28, 2005, at 11:05 AM, Arie Vandenberg wrote: > >> From Allen's financials, they did roughly $21 Million in the organ >> business in 2004. They did roughly $20.5 million in 2003. In 2004 = only >> 25% of their income was due to the organ business.   Russ,   Anybody can find this info. out, but here is the breakdown for Allen = Sales. (in USD)   Total Sales 80M   Data Communications 55M Electronic Assemblies 2.5M (Contract electronic assembly work) Audio Equipment 1.5M (Legacy Audio Speakers) Organs 21M (they call it musical instruments)   Does this satisfy your curiosity?   Arie V.