PipeChat Digest #5317 - Friday, May 6, 2005
 
Re: Pipe organs in Baptist Churches
  by "Beau Surratt" <Beau.Surratt@theatreorgans.com>
Gratian Organ Builders
  by "First Christian Church of Casey, Illinois" <kzrev@rr1.net>
Conn "pipes" -- the inside story!
  by "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@earthlink.net>
Re: Pipe organs in Baptist Churches
  by <TheOrganst@aol.com>
Re: Conn "pipes" -- the inside story!
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
RE: Pipe organs in Baptist Churches
  by "John Jarvis" <jljarvis@comcast.net>
RE: An organ goulash.....Angst in Eastern Europe
  by "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
RE: Pipe organs in Baptist Churches
  by "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
RE: Pipe organs in Baptist Churches
  by "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com>
Baptist Churches in Alabama
  by "Randy Terry" <randy@peacham.homeip.net>
Re: Pipe organs in Baptist Churches
  by <Innkawgneeto@cs.com>
Re: Pipe organs in Baptist Churches (Was: Re: Re: new topic)
  by <Innkawgneeto@cs.com>
RE: Pipe organs in Baptist Churches
  by "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
Re: Conn "pipes" -- the inside story!
  by "Stephen Best" <stevebest@usadatanet.net>
Re: Conn "pipes" -- the inside story!
  by "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com>
makes of instruments
  by "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
Re: Conn "pipes" -- the inside story!
  by "Larry McGuire" <larry@duntarvie.f2s.com>
Re: Pipe organs in Baptist Churches
  by "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net>
RE: "Continuing education"
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com>
Re: "Continuing education"
  by "N. Russotto" <ravenrockdesigns@gmail.com>
Re: Conn "pipes" -- the inside story!
  by "Paul Smith" <kipsmith@getgoin.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Pipe organs in Baptist Churches From: "Beau Surratt" <Beau.Surratt@theatreorgans.com> Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 10:59:53 -0500   Hi! Just for the record...   I grew up in a largeish (around 1200 members) Southern Baptist Church in Jackson, TN (about an hour northeast of Memphis) and, in 1996, they got a brand new 3/62 Visser Rowland (not a tracker- electric with slider chests) Although the music program has changed a lot since then (yes, contemporary with guitars and drums so you don't have to ask) they do still use the organ. Unfortunately, however, they don't have any sort of recital series going on. This instrument, incidentally, is one of the things that sparked my interest in the organ and was the first instrument I practiced/took lessons on.   Union University, a Southern Baptist liberal arts college in Jackson, has a 3 manual (not sure how many ranks) Visser-Rowland tracker in their chapel. It is presided over by Dr. Ron Boud.   The instrument at First Baptist started and string of churches in Jackson either getting new organs or rebuilding/adding to existing ones. Just a few years ago (2002, I think) First Presbyterian in Jackson, where my former teacher A. Steven Taranto is the Organist and Director of Music, got a LOVELY 3/56 Schantz. You may have seen that one in a TAO or two.   If you go on down the road to Memphis (I'm sure Scott Foppiano can tell your more about this than I can) you have Bellevue Baptist, an ENORMOUS church with the largest electronic (Allen) organ in the world. There's also First Baptist in Memphis which has a largish Wicks. I'm sure there are lots more.   Blessings, Beau Surratt      
(back) Subject: Gratian Organ Builders From: "First Christian Church of Casey, Illinois" <kzrev@rr1.net> Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 12:50:46 -0500   Rich--hope you save a copy or two to send to the OHS archives.   Dennis Steckley   "Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened."--Dr. Seuss        
(back) Subject: Conn "pipes" -- the inside story! From: "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 12:53:58 -0500   Hi all --   Well, OK -- I admit there's no story here, and it's not-quite-sorta-almost =   off topic, but the subject does come up from time to time...   If anyone wants to see whats actually inside a "Conn Pipes" speaker unit, check out this eBay sale with great photos. (item #5771182536) Don't = miss the opportunity here to own a splendid example of this fine bit of electronic technology!! ;-) :-))   http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3D50597&item=3D57711= 82536&rd=3D1   Now, don't y'all go off and start a bidding war or something...!! <lolol>   Cheers -- Tim (who is not affiliated with the seller in any way shape or form)          
(back) Subject: Re: Pipe organs in Baptist Churches From: <TheOrganst@aol.com> Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 14:48:38 EDT   Some of you might have attended the service at the First Baptist Church of = Los Angeles during the National AGO convention last summer. We had almost 2000 in attendance at the service. The organ? A 1926, 92 = rank Kimball, rebuilt and enlarged by Ken Simpson, a local Los Angeles builder = in the 1960's The chapel has a 17 rank Simpson pipe organ. Another example of a Baptist church that doesn't own a Hammond, nor do we =   use drums, guitars, organ and piano together, and we most certainly do not = do "Praise" music. The one and only microphone is at the pulpit. Kyle B. Irwin Organist - Curator First Baptist Church of Los Angeles  
(back) Subject: Re: Conn "pipes" -- the inside story! From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 15:04:28 EDT   In a message dated 5/5/2005 1:56:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, tmbovard@earthlink.net writes:   If anyone wants to see whats actually inside a "Conn Pipes" speaker unit, = check out this eBay sale with great photos     these MAKE great En Chamade pipes for an in home digi install......... dale in Florida  
(back) Subject: RE: Pipe organs in Baptist Churches From: "John Jarvis" <jljarvis@comcast.net> Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 13:14:13 -0700   Not quite a Baptist church in name but certainly very close in theology = and free worship is First Evangelical Free Church in Fullerton, CA. Dr. = Charles Swindoll of radio and book fame was the pastor for 23 years.   They have a IV/73 Wicks pipe organ that was installed in 1985. Here is = a link to a url describing the organ http://organ.wicks.com/display_page?o=3D1&p=3D200&s=3D6041   Dr. Richard Unfried, former organist at the Crystal Cathedral, was the consultant on this project and has been the church's organist for over = 15 years.      
(back) Subject: RE: An organ goulash.....Angst in Eastern Europe From: "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 08:18:13 +1200   >Would this be "offtopic" I wonder, or just "a rotten subject?"   On the one hand............while on the other hand................. That's an absolute definite maybe.................. Yes and no..................... (Thinking of Jim Hacker MP) (Get Humphrey Appleby to interpret)   Ross      
(back) Subject: RE: Pipe organs in Baptist Churches From: "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 08:36:44 +1200   > Just for the record...   Here in NZ - 1. Milford Baptist replaced its 1970s Croft 2m 10rk with an electronic. 2. Colombo St Baptist replaced its 2m 6rk Hayman/Hele with something electronic. 3. Wellington Central Baptist replaced its 1870s 2m 14rk Wm Hill & Son = with a 3m electronic. 4. Dunedin Baptist replaced its 3m 18rk Jenkins/Matla with something electronic. 5. Karori Baptist replaced its 2m 2rk Compton with something electronic.   Ponsonby Baptist would like to replace their 1m organ with an electronic = but don't dare to as the old organ is a 1m Avery from the late 18thC.   I need not continue relating this sad saga.   Ross            
(back) Subject: RE: Pipe organs in Baptist Churches From: "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com> Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 16:42:35 -0400   At 04:36 PM 2005-05-05, you wrote: > > Just for the record... > >Here in NZ - > >1. Milford Baptist replaced its 1970s Croft 2m 10rk with an electronic. >2. Colombo St Baptist replaced its 2m 6rk Hayman/Hele with something >electronic. >3. Wellington Central Baptist replaced its 1870s 2m 14rk Wm Hill & Son = with >a 3m electronic. >4. Dunedin Baptist replaced its 3m 18rk Jenkins/Matla with something >electronic. >5. Karori Baptist replaced its 2m 2rk Compton with something electronic. > >Ponsonby Baptist would like to replace their 1m organ with an electronic = but >don't dare to as the old organ is a 1m Avery from the late 18thC. > >I need not continue relating this sad saga. > >Ross   Ross,   May I ask what happened to these pipe organs that were replaced? Did they =   have intrinsic musical capabilities, or were they just organs that had pipes. My point is were they sad cases of pipe organs, or were replaced because they didn't have all the bells and whistles that church and = worship committees like to see on organs these days? Or were they neglected for = so long, refurbishing them was too costly?   Arie V.   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Arie Vandenberg Classic Organbuilders ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com Tel.: 905-475-1263      
(back) Subject: Baptist Churches in Alabama From: "Randy Terry" <randy@peacham.homeip.net> Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 13:50:52 -0700   First Baptist, Florence Alabama - II/25 Reuter in Sanctuary, II/3 Reuter = in Chapel   Highland Baptist, Florence, AL III/26 Schantz   First Baptist, Tuscumbia, AL II/24 Reuter   First Baptist, Decatur, AL II/35 Casavant, Church, II/5 Schantz, Chapel   First Baptist, Huntsville, AL IV/7? Casavant, Church, II/5 Reuter, Chapel   First Baptist, Fort Payne AL IV/?? Reiger-Kloss   First Baptist, Cullman, II/25 Moller   First Baptist, Birmingham, III/65 Wicks   This is just a handful of towns across half the state. If you polled the others, you'd find quite a few more pipe organs. All of the organs above mentioned are post 1960. The style of music in these churches does not require that the pipe organ be replaced, but in many cases, they do use taped accompaniment or bands, and in the case of the Baptist Church in Huntsville, orchestra, to augment the organ, which in all cases is the = major instrument used to accompany the congregation.   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Randy Terry Music Minister The Episcopal Church of St. Peter Redwood City, California        
(back) Subject: Re: Pipe organs in Baptist Churches From: <Innkawgneeto@cs.com> Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 16:52:36 -0400   RMB10@aol.com wrote: >Baptist churches get a bad rap about the style of music that we do.   Having attended a Baptist university for undergrad, I can vouch for the = commitment to excellence that WAS the norm in the 70s and early 80s. That = university has a monstrous Reuter. And I am sure that it is still a very = fine music school.   And there have been some very very fine organists among the more = evangelical traditions.   I used to enjoy playing Hammonds... congregations would generally say: "We = didn't know that organ could sound like that." Seems to me, the Hammond = company knew how to build a long-lasting quality product.   My 2 pfarthings worth.   Neil  
(back) Subject: Re: Pipe organs in Baptist Churches (Was: Re: Re: new topic) From: <Innkawgneeto@cs.com> Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 16:55:48 -0400   "First Baptist Church in the city where Furman University..."   Greenville, SC.  
(back) Subject: RE: Pipe organs in Baptist Churches From: "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 09:00:40 +1200   >1. Milford Baptist replaced its 1970s Croft 2m 10rk with an electronic.'' A good organ, even if a unit one, with Mixture, 16ft reed etc. Broken up for bits.   >2. Colombo St Baptist replaced its 2m 6rk Hayman/Hele with something >electronic. Broken up, scattered in private homes and a Presby.Church.   >3. Wellington Central Baptist replaced its 1870s 2m 14rk Wm Hill & Son = with >a 3m electronic. I retrieve the pipes of this one after they'd taken a chainsaw to the chests.   >4. Dunedin Baptist replaced its 3m 18rk Jenkins/Matla with something >electronic. A restaurant owns it but will never restore it or use it.   >5. Karori Baptist replaced its 2m 2rk Compton with something electronic. Given to my old parish, Wainuiomata Anglican, where I added to it.   >May I ask what happened to these pipe organs that were replaced? Did = they have intrinsic musical capabilities, or were they just organs that had pipes. My point is were they sad cases of pipe organs, or were replaced because they didn't have all the bells and whistles that church and = worship committees like to see on organs these days? Or were they neglected for = so long, refurbishing them was too costly?   I don't think any of them should have been replaced, though the Colombo St organ was not good tonally and the Karori one was rather small for the church's size. Replacing them was not a question of cost, but of people preferring the sound of electronics. Sad, but true.   Ross    
(back) Subject: Re: Conn "pipes" -- the inside story! From: "Stephen Best" <stevebest@usadatanet.net> Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 15:37:10 -0400   I'm curious. Did this device work any better than ordinary speakers? Was the sound appreciably different from other Conn sound?   Steve Best in Utica, NY   Tim Bovard wrote:   > Hi all -- > > Well, OK -- I admit there's no story here, and it's > not-quite-sorta-almost off topic, but the subject does come up from > time to time... > > If anyone wants to see whats actually inside a "Conn Pipes" speaker > unit, check out this eBay sale with great photos. (item #5771182536) > Don't miss the opportunity here to own a splendid example of this fine > bit of electronic technology!! ;-) :-)) > > = http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3D50597&item=3D57711= 82536&rd=3D1        
(back) Subject: Re: Conn "pipes" -- the inside story! From: "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com> Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 17:11:44 -0400   At 03:37 PM 2005-05-05, you wrote: >I'm curious. Did this device work any better than ordinary speakers? Was =   >the sound appreciably different from other Conn sound? > >Steve Best in Utica, NY   Steve,   Try talking into a pipe, and see how your voice changes. That is essentially what these Conn pipes did. If you like all mid-range sound, = no real high frequency content, and nothing below about 120 Hz, these are = just the speakers for YOU.   Arie V.      
(back) Subject: makes of instruments From: "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 09:17:21 +1200   There used to be a lot of comment around -   Hammond =3D Ham'n'Eggs Allen =3D Alien Conn =3D Con (i.e. confidence trick) Saville - Servile Kawai =3D Ka-why? Thomas =3D Long John Thomas Rogers =3D what Oscar Wilde was convicted of etc.   Ross    
(back) Subject: Re: Conn "pipes" -- the inside story! From: "Larry McGuire" <larry@duntarvie.f2s.com> Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 22:24:54 +0100   >> If you like all mid-range sound, no real high frequency content, <<   Bear in mind, that the Conn Pipe Speakers were used for the string, diapason, and reed channels of their analogue organs, there was in fact a lot of high frequency energy emanated from these units.   There were of course, 6 different models of speaker, with different sizes of 'pipes' right up to 12' long - not just for the show aspect, but to get the spatial spread of sound from as broad a frequency range as possible. Combined with the multi-channel leslie cabinet for the flute channels, it was an impressive aural image for its day, especially in a large and reverberant church.   In effect, they did exactly what Conn wanted them to do, which was to spread the source of sound, and stop the 'point source' effect of a loudspeaker cabinet. The pipe tubes acted as resonators (hence the differing lengths) which did affect the tonal quality of the sound in a minor way (so the short tubes affected the highest pitches . . ) and of course, as well as acting as resonators, the tubes also acted as amplifiers, just as a pipe organ's pipes do.   Nowadays, they are seen as some sort of curiosity, much as a Wurlitzer Brass Horn is, but that's another loudspeaker that did its job perfectly..........   Larry McGuire in the UK - once a proud owner of a Conn 650       -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.5 - Release Date: 04/05/2005    
(back) Subject: Re: Pipe organs in Baptist Churches From: "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net> Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 15:29:49 -0600   Good Afternoon, PipeChatters: I am the curator for the four-manual Shantz in First Baptist Church in Garland, Texas. This organ was installed in 1979, and played admirably until the late 1990s, when the combination action died from "hardening of the puffers." These puffers were made of rubberized cloth. Good leather was hard to find in the 1970s. Schantz uses high-grade leather of modern tanning methods now. We rebuilt it with a Musicom Complete Organ Control System using Harris Precision Controls drawknobs and rocker tabs, and, while we were at it, added the seven "prepared for" voices that were left out by Schantz. These Musicom empowered organ voices were set to blend with what was already in place by Schantz. Some day, I hope to add the "Antiphonal" division as an up-front SOLO divisiion using more Musicom voices.   The pipes are in reasonably good condition, and give us no more trouble than any organ in a highly unstable temperature environment on three levels from floor to ceiling about 40-feet up. I tune it four times a year. This organ has been under the excellent musical play of three fine organists, Lola Dill, Helen Mason, and, our most recent acquisition, Richard Ponder. Our contemporary musicians play guitar, piano, bass, drums, keyboard(s), percussion(s) snaps, pops, and sizzles, and an excellent vocal praise team of our talented residents. What they do is done with excellence, and they know they are not the only musical expression in church. Variety? Wait until our Celtic Ensemble sings out with hammerd dulcimer, tin whistle, violin, guitar, and Celtic harp, ...all acoustical, with singers who imitate this style excellently. The traditional crowd packs the auditorium on most Sunday mornings at 8:45 a.m. The CCM praise service holds forth to a moderatly good crowd at 11:15 a.m., substantiating that we have a musical variety in a five-generation congregation. Sunday evenings have support from our Praise Singers Choir (old folks), Youth Choir (high school), Middle-School Choir, and Primary Choir (ages 9-11) and our graded-choir singers. About one-third of our church is enrolled or used in musical worship. We use ALL styles to good advantage.   We are working on my main complaint. The organ has less-than-needed walkboards, and the drop to bodily ruin is about 16 - 24 feet above the concrete floor. Some portions of the mechanical installation are beyond normal reach. Hope to write back to you in a few months to report that we can now get to every part of this organ. <smiles> We can use the organ in every style. I think that is a proper approach. Including an electric bass with drums and a choral performance is normal. We often delight the folks with organ and piano duets of old gospel songs. Heavy organ, however, is rare, until Richard Ponder arrived and spins out a toccata or impromptu in grande style for prelude or postlude. We are recovering from the loss of emphasis on anything that resembled "high church" classical traditions by a former pastor. Our new pastor and new interim music director are laying the foundation for good music, in all styles, to continue in the future. We are still looking for a music director who can live within such broad musicial interpretations. <grins> Stay in tune, and keep your pipes dusted out. F. Richard Burt Dorian Organs ..    
(back) Subject: RE: "Continuing education" From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 17:59:40 -0500   Trust the lawyers to choose the best venues for educating themselves.   Although I must say that Salt Lake City and New York City proved to be good cities for organ conventions. I'm looking forward to Chicago next year.   Glenda Sutton gksjd85@direcway.com (who's on a roll, winning yesterday and again today, creating new law, discovering that there is a use for boring articles in law journals by dry, dusty law professors and law students who haven't seen the inside of a courtroom)   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of TubaMagna@aol.com   In the general academic community, "continuing education" implies coursework after the earning of a degree, as far as I know. This is different from CLE requirements in the ABA context, which is what comes to mind for the JDs and LLMs in our midst. Of course, legal organizations usually arrange things such that CLE programs are held at golf resorts in wonderful climates during the winter.        
(back) Subject: Re: "Continuing education" From: "N. Russotto" <ravenrockdesigns@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 19:10:00 -0400   Congrats Glenda! What were the cases? NFR   On 5/5/05, Glenda <gksjd85@direcway.com> wrote:=20 >=20 > Trust the lawyers to choose the best venues for educating themselves. >=20 > Although I must say that Salt Lake City and New York City proved to be > good cities for organ conventions. I'm looking forward to Chicago next > year. >=20 > Glenda Sutton > gksjd85@direcway.com > (who's on a roll, winning yesterday and again today, creating new law, > discovering that there is a use for boring articles in law journals by > dry, dusty law professors and law students who haven't seen the inside > of a courtroom) >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of > TubaMagna@aol.com >=20 > In the general academic community, "continuing education" implies > coursework after the earning of a degree, as far as I know. > This is different from CLE requirements in the ABA context, which is > what comes to mind for the JDs and LLMs in our midst. Of course, legal > organizations usually arrange things such that CLE programs are held at > golf resorts in wonderful climates during the winter. >=20 > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> >=20 >=20     --=20 Nicholas F. Russotto Somers, Connecticut Organist, Holy Cross PNCC Enfield, Connecticut Moderator/Owner: Monarch of Music=20 http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/monarch_of_music/  
(back) Subject: Re: Conn "pipes" -- the inside story! From: "Paul Smith" <kipsmith@getgoin.net> Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 20:30:55 -0500   When I came to my present church 14 years ago, we had a 28-year-old Conn with a double set of the "pipe-speakers" at the rear of the sanctuary, and =   the usual speakers (including a Leslie for the flutes) in the console. The =   "pipe-speakers", being 50' away, added a fullness to the sound that was = nice on big hymns. But they really have no bass content to contribute, being = only fairly small speakers. The pipe gizmos had no effect in "spreading the sound", as their literature claimed, and their sound was deader than the console speakers which used a slow Leslie to create a chorus effect. The "pipes" were a distraction, and had half the congregation convinced that = we had a pipe organ, when we didn't! Kip in MO   PS - To stay on topic, we now have a 16-rank old Moller which will be 35 ranks in a year from now.     ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Best" <stevebest@usadatanet.net> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 2:37 PM Subject: Re: Conn "pipes" -- the inside story!     > I'm curious. Did this device work any better than ordinary speakers? = Was > the sound appreciably different from other Conn sound? > > Steve Best in Utica, NY > > Tim Bovard wrote: > >> Hi all -- >> >> Well, OK -- I admit there's no story here, and it's >> not-quite-sorta-almost off topic, but the subject does come up from = time >> to time... >> >> If anyone wants to see whats actually inside a "Conn Pipes" speaker = unit, >> check out this eBay sale with great photos. (item #5771182536) Don't >> miss the opportunity here to own a splendid example of this fine bit of =   >> electronic technology!! ;-) :-)) >> >> = http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3D50597&item=3D57711= 82536&rd=3D1 > > > > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > > >