PipeChat Digest #5325 - Tuesday, May 10, 2005
 
Who's on First?
  by "Daniel Hancock" <dhancock@brpae.com>
Organ builders: your opinion, please
  by "Stephen Roberts" <sroberts01@snet.net>
Re: Who is the oldest surviving organ company?
  by "nelson denton" <ndenton@cogeco.ca>
Cross Posted with Permission: Teach them how to play church organ
  by "Desiree'" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Non-Greek organic words
  by "Jarle Fagerheim" <jarle_fagerheim@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Non-Greek organic words
  by "N. Russotto" <ravenrockdesigns@gmail.com>
RE: Non-Greek organic words
  by "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
Re: Organ builders: your opinion, please
  by <OrganMD@aol.com>
Re: Non-Greek organic words
  by "Jarle Fagerheim" <jarle_fagerheim@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Cross Posted with Permission: Teach them how to play church organ
  by <RVScara@aol.com>
Re: Non-Greek organic words
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Seeking a scholarly text on Registration of Reger
  by "Desiree'" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Eastern Europe - Hungarian Organs
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
INCOMPLETE POSTING
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
 

(back) Subject: Who's on First? From: "Daniel Hancock" <dhancock@brpae.com> Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 08:23:57 -0500   >From: "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis.jan@gmail.com> >Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 19:47:11 -0700> > >mmmm, Thanks for the complement, but I beg to differ.=20 > >I only posted the link to Amoskeag Presbyterian, Manchester, NH. My only >point was that stained glass windows can be protected from vandalism and >the console can resist "Acts of God" (Genesis 1:3-4) without destroying the >aesthetics of a building. > >The original link with the interior of Faith Lutheran came from Charlie >Lester (crl@137.com). > >... and I wanna hear him play the Theramin in worship. (check out his >site.)     Ooops! You're right...forgive me for perpetuating misunderstanding. And thank you for the correction!   I have seen the site about the Theramin...and it does sound intruiging!   Daniel  
(back) Subject: Organ builders: your opinion, please From: "Stephen Roberts" <sroberts01@snet.net> Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 08:22:50 -0700 (PDT)   I would greatly appreciate it, if the organ builders on the list would = give me a rough estimate of the cost to build a two manual organ of 20 = stops (in the organ building sense; not "speaking stops") and 26 ranks. I = am trying to get an idea of the replacement cost of a particular, existing = instrument, and not contemplating the purchase of such an organ. The = organ in question has electropneumatic action and was built by a large = factory builder. It is a chamber installation with no significant = casework. The console is a drawknob console in walnut. If you could give = me a ballpark figure with a range as to possible cost to build such an = organ today, it would be very helpful. Thank you very much in advance for = your help! Stephen Roberts  
(back) Subject: Re: Who is the oldest surviving organ company? From: "nelson denton" <ndenton@cogeco.ca> Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 01:36:26 -0400   Thanks all. That makes my tiny company circa ~1863 rather creaky! Just like my knees!   Spencer Bros ~1863-1871, Owen Sound Ontario (Walter) Spencer Organ Company 1871-1910, Hamilton Ontario * Hamilton Church Organ Works 1910- ~1935, Hamilton Ont. * R. A Denton & Son 1935-present, Hamilton Ont. *   *(Grandad and his brothers started in the 1890's working for Walter = Spencer and bought him out in 1910) Walter's son Edwin was a well known organbuilder in the U.S.     Nelson.   ..    
(back) Subject: Cross Posted with Permission: Teach them how to play church organ From: "Desiree'" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 12:03:00 -0700 (PDT)   Below is a very good post from the other list, that others here may not = have seen. Very good post, imho. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------------------------------------- I left my previous church job in early January. They were quite fortunate to find an organist much better than me in a relatively short = period of time. But during the auditions the music director encountered the following:   A student who is graduating from a MAJOR east coast conservatory and taking up doctoral studies at a MAJOR New York City conservatory = interviewed forthe position. Part of the audition was to transpose a congregational song, and to improvise. The transposition was asked of a piece which had melody notes and chord symbols, transposed down a step. The candidate = could not doit. The improvisation was simply to continue playing SOMETHING = after the hymn was finished, to cover the incensing of the altar. The candidate rather proudly announced that he does not improvise, and in such a situation he would play a piece of composed music.   I think that all would agree that these are BASIC skills for any well trained organist (perhaps arguably any musician - period).   Needless to say, this young man was not offered the position.   Anthony Celentano First Presbyterian Church Succasunna NJ Peragallo, 1958, 2(3)/16     --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour
(back) Subject: Non-Greek organic words From: "Jarle Fagerheim" <jarle_fagerheim@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 21:27:10 +0200   Hi Chatters,   Do any of you know of a natural language whose word for (pipe) organ doesn't originate in Greek "organon"?   -- Beste helsing / Best wishes / Beste Gr=FC=DFe / Bestu kvedjur   Jarle Fagerheim   jarle_fagerheim@yahoo.co.uk www: http://jarle.moo.no  
(back) Subject: Re: Non-Greek organic words From: "N. Russotto" <ravenrockdesigns@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 15:30:34 -0400   If any Asian Languages have a word for "organ" it would not originate from= =20 greek. NFR   On 5/10/05, Jarle Fagerheim <jarle_fagerheim@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:=20 >=20 > Hi Chatters, >=20 > Do any of you know of a natural language whose word for (pipe) organ > doesn't originate in Greek "organon"? >=20 > -- > Beste helsing / Best wishes / Beste Gr=FC=DFe / Bestu kvedjur >=20 > Jarle Fagerheim >=20 > jarle_fagerheim@yahoo.co.uk > www: http://jarle.moo.no >=20 > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> >=20 >=20     --=20 Nicholas F. Russotto Somers, Connecticut Organist, Holy Cross PNCC Enfield, Connecticut Moderator/Owner: Monarch of Music=20 http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/monarch_of_music/  
(back) Subject: RE: Non-Greek organic words From: "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 09:12:00 +1200   >If any Asian Languages have a word for "organ" it would not originate = from greek.   I don't think this is necessarily so. It's unlikely (I think impossible) that there is any pipe organ tradition in Asian countries. When they = import organs these days, they are extremely likely to use a transliterated = version of the word from a European language and thus ultimately from the Greek. = I'm happy to be proved wrong, having no knowledge of the topic at all, but ............   Ross =A0 =A0>>Do any of you know of a natural language whose word for (pipe) = organ doesn't originate in Greek "organon"?=20        
(back) Subject: Re: Organ builders: your opinion, please From: <OrganMD@aol.com> Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 17:14:28 EDT   Stephen ............ I would suppose that in the neighborhood of 400K should cover the = instrument. Bill  
(back) Subject: Re: Non-Greek organic words From: "Jarle Fagerheim" <jarle_fagerheim@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 23:35:16 +0200   N. Russotto wrote: > If any Asian Languages have a word for "organ" it would not originate = from > greek. > NFR As Ross points out, it is likely that if there is no "native" pipe organ culture, even Asians will import the Greek word. Japanese has imported English words like 'Christmas' (kurisumasu), 'hot dog' (hottodoggu) and 'kitchen' (kitchin), Vietnamese has borrowed a bunch of French words, and Thai has been influenced by Sanskrit.   Modern Icelandic has a very purist vocabulary. However, one of the very few accepted loan words is 'orgel'. Some "extremists" have proposed '=F3mv=E9l' (pronunced rougly 'omewyehl'), which means something like 'machine of great sound and reverb'. I like it! Sadly, this "High Icelandic" language hasn't found widespread use yet.     -- Beste helsing / Best wishes / Beste Gr=FC=DFe / Bestu kvedjur   Jarle Fagerheim   jarle_fagerheim@yahoo.co.uk www: http://jarle.moo.no  
(back) Subject: Re: Cross Posted with Permission: Teach them how to play church organ From: <RVScara@aol.com> Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 17:37:09 EDT   In a message dated 5/10/2005 3:03:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, nicemusica@yahoo.com passed below on from another list concerning a well = educated organ student:   Part of the audition was to transpose a congregational song, and to improvise. The transposition was asked of a piece which had =   melody notes and chord symbols, transposed down a step. The candidate = could not doit. The improvisation was simply to continue playing SOMETHING = after the hymn was finished, to cover the incensing of the altar. The = candidate rather proudly announced that he does not improvise, and in such a situation he would play a piece of composed music.   I think that all would agree that these are BASIC skills for any well trained organist (perhaps arguably any musician - period). I'm surprised. I can't come close to that lad's musical training but = what's so difficult to "make up" a few minutes of music to fill in the blank spaces. I have to do it every week at five services and I don't "play by = ear." It just seems so easy to improvise something musically acceptable instead of = an absolute nothing, dead silence. For heaven's sake, a short take-off on = the last hymn on the Chimes, if nothing else. I've been asked where to find = the music to something I "winged" while waiting for the next part of the = service to get moving. All that training! Makes one wonder. Bob Scara St Paul RC, Burlington, NJ                  
(back) Subject: Re: Non-Greek organic words From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 14:42:05 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   How very troublesome of Jarle!   I am currently "doing Eastern Europe" and came across the following words for organ, which seem perfectly normal to me, until one gets to the Russian and Lithuanian words.   Here is a list of the words for organ as they appear to be in various countries:-   Oreli- Estonia   &#274;r&#291;e&#316;u - Latvia   Orgona - Romania   O&#1088;&#1075;&#1072;&#1085;&#1077; - Russian   Organy - Poland   Orgel - Slovenia   Oprahu - Ukraine   And from Lithuania, the following:-   Etimologi=F0kai =FEodis "vargonai" yra kil=E6s i=F0 graiki=F0ko =FEod=FEio "organon", rei=F0kiant=E1 " =E1rank=E1".     Now, I ask, where do "O&#1088;&#1075;&#1072;&#1085;&#1077;" and "Oprahu" come from in Russia and the Ukraine, and what on earth are the derivatives of "vergonai" and "aranka" as detailed in the Lithuanian URL I discovered?   I wonder if the Islamic world ever had a special word for "organ," because one or two did find their way across to that region. Was it Suleman (Suliman?) who had an organ? Memory may be stretching a bit far on this one.....about 35 or more years in fact.   The Indian continent is very likely to use the English term "organ," considering that we took them there with the British Empire and the Raj.   As a desperate last attempt at finding the impossible, there is always the Chinese "Cheng" as a starter for any Oriental linguistic specialists aboard pipechat.   Regards,   Colin MItchell UK (Really getting into this East Europe thing!)     --- Jarle Fagerheim <jarle_fagerheim@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > Hi Chatters, > > Do any of you know of a natural language whose word > for (pipe) organ > doesn't originate in Greek "organon"?       Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html    
(back) Subject: Seeking a scholarly text on Registration of Reger From: "Desiree'" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 15:44:17 -0700 (PDT)   I am seeking a title to a scholarly text regarding the registration of = Reger's works. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. TDH   __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
(back) Subject: Eastern Europe - Hungarian Organs From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 16:51:25 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   The problems of delving into Hungarian, Czech, Slovak, Romanian, Polish and Bulgarian organ history and culture are many; not least the linguistic problems associated with machine translations. When certain things translate wrongly, such as "Book wood" for the organ-builder Buckholz, the corruption is not very difficult to work out, but when "blunder egg" arrives in translation, the task becomes difficult and amusing in equal measure.   The most obvious place to start my investigation was the former Czechoslavakia: now divided amicably between the new Czech Republic and the newly independent, and very beautiful country of Slovakia. Due to cultural interchanges, the whole region, including the former Czechoslovakia and Hungary (especially under communist rule), shared the products from the organ-builders active in each country. Thus, there are a number of Czechoslovakian made Rieger-Kloss instruments in Hungary: this being the most significant organ-building company in the region and by far the most successful.   However, it is to Hungary that I turn first, for there is a diversity and richness in Hungarian organ-building which is not found in quite the same way anywhere else in the former Eastern European communist-bloc. One might be forgiven for thinking that Hungarian organs owe their alliegance to the Austrian tradition, but this is only partly true. On further investigation, it appears that there is a very strong French Romantic influence directly from the factory of Cavaille-Coll, with whom certain Hungarian organ-builders studied or served apprenticeships.   Perhaps the most celebrated name in Hungarian organ-history is that of Joseph Angester, and the following brief biography, translated as best I could from the Hungarian, reads as follows:-   -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-   Joseph Angster was born on July 7th 1834 in Kacsfalun (now known as Jagodnak, in Croatia) of a German family. It is known that he journeyed for ten years around Europe, during which time he studied the organ building traditions of Germany and Austria. On his second journey, he worked with the great French master, Aristide Cavaille-Coll in Paris between 1863 and 1866, and carried out work to the organs of Notre Dame and St.Trinite, Paris.   In 1869, he returned to Hungary; setting up an organ-building company in Pecsett. His first organ (op.1) was a great success, and established his credentials as a fine young organ-builder. Jose[h Angster died on June 9th, 1918; the company handed to Emily and Oscar Angster.   The large organ-building factory turned out over 1200 organs, including the famous and most respected organs at the Minster, Budapest., The mInster at Gyor and elsewhere.   Under the communist regime, the factory closed and the great gandson of Joseph Angster was jailed by the Russian authorities for owning a business!   The factory site was re-opened in 1998 as the Pecsi organ-building concern which still exists to-day. Nevertheless, the stop-lists resemble their German or Austrian counterparts for the most part; proving that appearences can be deceptive.   -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o--   The fact that Catholicism is the stable, accepted religion of Hungary, means that the Cathedrals, Doms and Churches are landmark buildings; more often than not built in elaborate baroque style, with acres of marble and an ample supply of domes and barrel vaulting. It goes without saying, that the acoustics are often enormously resonant, and the organs usually situated in the ideal West End gallery position.   Whilst new parish organs and older extant baroque instrument a special subject in their own rights, it is to the very large instruments that one is instantly drawn....and some of them are monumentally big!   The following is the largest organ in Hungary:-     Szeged: Fogadalmi Templom (The Votive church)   5 Manuale, 182 Ranks, 140 Register   1930 erbaut von Emily Angster (H) 2002 repairs and partial restoration by P=E9csi Orgona=E9p=EDt=F5 - Pecsi Organ Company (Hungary) New 5-manual console controlling three organs - electro-pneumatic action     Hauptorgel   I. Hauptwerk   Praestant 16 Bourdon 16 Principal 8 Gemshorn 8 Fl=FBte harmoniqu 8 Weitgedeckt 8 Octav 4 Nachthorn 4 Quint 2 2/3 Superoctav 2 Koppelfl=F6te 2 Rauschpfeife IV Mixtur VI Trompete 16 Trompete 8 Clarinet 4 + Tremulant   II. Positiv   Quintadena 16 Principal 8 Spitzfl=F6te 8 Gedeckt 8 Salicional 8 Principal 4 Gemshorn 4 Rohrfl=F6te 4 Gemsquint 2 2/3 Octav 2 Blockfl=F6te 2 Piccolo 2 Terz 1 3/5 Larigot 1 1/3 Septim 1 1/7 Schwiegel 1 Quart II Acuta IV Sordun 16 Krummhorn 8 Regal 4 + Tremulant     III. Schwellwerk Rohrfl=F6te 16 Diapason 8 Nachthorn 8 Traversfl=F6te 8 Rohrbourdon 8 Viola di Gamba 8 Vox coelestis 8 Principal 4 Koppelfl=F6te 4 Violine 4 Koppelquint 2 2/3 Octav 2 Waldfl=F6te 2 Cornett III-V Siffl=F6ten II Cimbel III Dulcian 16 Trompette harmonique 8 Oboe 8 Trichterregal 4 + Schweller + Tremulant     IV. Seitenwerk Nachthorngedeckt 8 Quintadena 8 Flauta 4 Flachfl=F6te 2 Harmoniques II Quart II Rankett 16 Clarinet 8 + Celesta + Tremulant   V. Bombardewerk   Gro=DFquint 5 1/3 Gro=DFterz 3 1/5 Schriari VIII Bombard 16   V. Solowerk   Seraphon Bourdon 16 Seraphon Fl=F6te 8 Sologamba 8 Doppelfl=F6te 4 Tuba mirabilis 8 Cor harmonique 4 + Tremulant   Pedal   Bourdon 32 Principalbass 16 Subbass 16 Contrabass 16 Rohrquint 10 2/3 Octavbass 8 Dolkan 8 Nachthorngedeckt 8 Quint 5 1/3 Choralbass 4 Spitzfl=F6te 4 Quint 2 2/3 Superoctav 2 Flautino 1 Harmoniques II Mixtur IV Sordun 32 Posaune 16 Fagott 16 Trompete 8 Clairon 4 Cornett 2     Chororgel   I. Hauptwerk   Quintat=F6n 16 Italienischer Principal 8 Trichterfl=F6te 8 Fl=FBte octaviante 4 Nachthorn 4 Quint 2 2/3 Tibia aperta 2 Ripieno V Trompete 8 II. Schwellwerk   Geigenprincipal 8 Flauta 8 Unda Maris 8 Italienische Octav 4 Spitzgedeckt 4 Nasat 2 2/3 Fl=F6te 2 Terz 1 3/5 Larigot 1 1/3 Flageolet 1 Cimbel III Regal 8 + Schweller + Tremulant     Pedal   Apertabass 16 Subbass 16 Octavbass 8 Gedecktbass 8 Quint 5 1/3 Quintadena 4 Bourdon harmonique 2 Posaune 16     Kuppelorgel   Manual   Bourdon 16 Diapason 8 Rohrfl=F6te 8 Vox angelica II 8 Flachfl=F6te 4 Fugara 4 Flageolet 2 Plein Jeu IV Trompette 8 Vox humana 8 + Tremulant   Pedal   Echobass 16 Flauta 8 Choralbass 4 Fagott 16       The choir organ (II/32) and the expansion of the large organ with 3 indices the firm in the year 1931 completed (opus 1075). The building of a planned crypt organ (I/21) was not realized. Therewith these 3 are, of the central game table sounding organs the very largest Hungary, one of the most important instruments of Europe. The regular maintenance of that of drawer-organ electro pneumatic diaphragm was already in the years before the nationalization of the anxieties-firm the task by the Mr. Peter soft, organ farmer. To the autumn 2000, it has the maintenance, cleansing and the necessary intonation and disposition at the organ carried out.   Designed by Mr Josef Geyer, Organ Tutor to the Ferencc Liszt Academy, the original intention was to create four organs which could be controlled from one large console. The main "High" or "Hauptorgel" and the "Coupler Organ" were ready in 1930 (V/101 Opus 1050) for an inaugural concert. In 1931, work was completed on the enlargement of the main instrument by three registers and the completion of the "Chororgel" (II/32) playable also from the 5-manual console, made this the largest organ in Hungary, and one of the most significant instruments in Europe. The fourth section of the planned instrument; a Crypt-orgel (I/21), was never made. With the closure of the Angster company after the communist takeover of Hungary, there were constant worries about the state of the instrument. By the year 2000, the reliability of the huge console was causing concern, and with the support of the City Administration, the diocese of Szegeder-Csanader gave financial support for the provision of a new mobile console.     The new console was dedicated on that 20th April 2002 by prof. Dr. Johann Trummer with an organ concert.   Unfortunately, the provision of a new console have not solved the ongoing problems associated with the complex construction of the instrument and the passage of time. The only solution will be to carry out further, extensive work to the instrument in the future.         __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail  
(back) Subject: INCOMPLETE POSTING From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 16:54:08 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   The previous posting re: Hungarian Organs was sent in error prematurely.   Please disregard until the complete version is posted.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK       Discover Yahoo! Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend. Check it = out! http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html