PipeChat Digest #5328 - Wednesday, May 11, 2005
 
Guilmant
  by "Tania Durova" <tania.durova@skynet.be>
Re: Non-Greek organic words no.2
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
organ nonsense
  by "GB" <gblack@ocslink.com>
RE: Non-Greek organic words no.2
  by "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
Non-Greek organic words no.3
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
RE: organ nonsense
  by "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
Re: Cross Posted
  by "jch" <opus1100@catoe.org>
Re: Non-Greek organic words no.2
  by "Jarle Fagerheim" <jarle_fagerheim@yahoo.co.uk>
Kist by a Scot
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
organ nonsense
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Non-Greek organic words no.2
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Non-Greek organic words no.2
  by "Jarle Fagerheim" <jarle_fagerheim@yahoo.co.uk>
RE: Non-Greek organic words no.2
  by "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu>
Re: Non-Greek organic words no.2
  by "Larry McGuire" <larry@duntarvie.f2s.com>
Re: Teach them how to play hymns
  by <Adivds@aol.com>
Re: Organ Nonsense (actual)
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Re: Non-Greek organic words no.2
  by "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu>
Re: Organ Nonsense
  by <Adivds@aol.com>
Teach them how to bike with stabilisers
  by "Jarle Fagerheim" <jarle_fagerheim@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Organ Nonsense
  by "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu>
Re: Organ Nonsense
  by <Adivds@aol.com>
Re: Organ Nonsense
  by "Brad Richards" <richards_brad@hotmail.com>
RE: Questions I have about Mono Recordings
  by "David Boothe" <dmboothe@yahoo.com>
Re: Organ Nonsense
  by "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com>
Re: Organ Nonsense
  by "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@earthlink.net>
trills toward the end of BWV 651
  by "Robert Lind" <lindr@core.com>
 

(back) Subject: Guilmant From: "Tania Durova" <tania.durova@skynet.be> Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 11:44:19 +0200   Dear list members,   Alexandre Guilmant adapted in 1874 his first Symphony (for orchestra, = with organ) for organ solo, re-baptising the piece as "Sonate" nr. 1 in = d-minor. All this was intended for the inauguration of the great organ = at the Royal Church in Brussels. =20 Does anyone of you have a copy of the programme of the original = inauguration-concert of this instrument ? I know it was performed by = Guilmant and Mailly, a pupil of Lemmens (as was Guilmant as well, of = course). =20 Thanks in advance,=20 Tania=20  
(back) Subject: Re: Non-Greek organic words no.2 From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 04:44:57 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   I came across some references to Eastern organ origins which may be of interest.   Apparently, there was a type of early "organ" known as the "Tibia utricularia" ( a sort of variable pipe presumably with holes/valves).   The Arabs called it the "arganum", the Assyrians called it "Symphoneia" and the Semites called it "Ugab".   I suppose the $6,000,000 question, is whether the Arabs called this precursor to the organ an "arganum" BEFORE the Greeks used the term "organum". If they did, then the origin of the word is Arabian!   It's interesting that the Assyrians used the term "Symphoneia".   Put the Arabic and Assyrian words together, and you come up with "Symphoneia Arganum" (Symphonic Organ).   Personally, I always like the Scottish term for the organ, "Kist o'whistles" (Literally a "chest of whistles"), which is definitely NOT Greek in origin   So until we prove or disprove otherwise, the Scots are leading the Arabs and Assyrians as odds-on favourites.   Of course, I knew an organist who seemed to suffer from an organist's version of 'Tourettes Syndrome'... constantly swearing at every organ he ever played. He referred to one instrument as a "screaming bitch", (among other colourful expressions) but I don't think this qualifies!!   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK                     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: organ nonsense From: "GB" <gblack@ocslink.com> Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 07:03:20 -0500   Hi list, I rather like the coupler that says organ bench to parking = lot. Have fun. Gary
(back) Subject: RE: Non-Greek organic words no.2 From: "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 23:59:24 +1200     >I came across some references to Eastern organ origins which may be of interest.   >Apparently, there was a type of early "organ" known as the "Tibia utricularia" ( a sort of variable pipe presumably with holes/valves).   "Utricularius" is the Latin word for bagpiper. I kid you not.   >Personally, I always like the Scottish term for the organ, "Kist o'whistles" (Literally a "chest of whistles"),   Actually, that should be "kist o' whussles." I forgive you - you are not Scottish by descent or intention. :-)   Ross    
(back) Subject: Non-Greek organic words no.3 From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 04:54:10 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   As a footnote, I "think" I have discovered (but cannot be certain) that the Arab word "arganum" means "conifer".   So was the arganum a single pipe hollowed out from pine?   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK       __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: RE: organ nonsense From: "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 00:14:30 +1200   Remember the old saying that is said to describe an organist's wedding night: "All stops off, all coupling systems on."   And the one for the very elderly gent: "Don't forget to use the piston = under the bed."   Ross    
(back) Subject: Re: Cross Posted From: "jch" <opus1100@catoe.org> Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 07:32:36 -0500   At 11:26 PM 5/10/05, you wrote: > Unless you can fess up and tell us in which MAJOR New York conservatory =   > this organist is studying, we must consider this unprofessional behavior =   > for what it is -- rumor mongering.   It would neither be helpful or useful to name the school. Any school = should not have to be judged by the churlish behavior of one of its' graduates. If his studies were centered on performance and not sacred music I can understand the problem. I have seen examples of organ performance majors who can play up a storm with major music repertoire and are unable to provide a decent hymn accompaniment. This individual would be poor choice for a church position where the organist is there to support the worship and not give a concert. My choice for a school would be one that focused on sacred music and how to support the worship service. I never expect to play major = works, but I would like to be able to provide decent accompaniment and support the liturgy.   Jon   >    
(back) Subject: Re: Non-Greek organic words no.2 From: "Jarle Fagerheim" <jarle_fagerheim@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 14:55:32 +0200   Colin Mitchell wrote: > I suppose the $6,000,000 question, is whether the > Arabs called this precursor to the organ an "arganum" > BEFORE the Greeks used the term "organum". If they > did, then the origin of the word is Arabian!   "Organum" is Latin, derived from Greek "organon", which in turn derives from Proto-Indo-European "*werg-ano-" ("*werg-" =3D "work"), so the origin =   is most likely not Arabian. The $7,000,000 question is then: Is the Arabian word derived from Greek/Latin, or does it have a separate = etymology?     -- Beste helsing / Best wishes / Beste Gr=FC=DFe / Bestu kvedjur   Jarle Fagerheim   jarle_fagerheim@yahoo.co.uk www: http://jarle.moo.no  
(back) Subject: Kist by a Scot From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 05:52:23 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   Quite wrong Ross, I am indeed Scots by descent, if not by intention.   I would refer you to the following extract from an account of Dr.Sankey's travels and ministry in Scotland; the author of which, I believe, was Ian Sankey.   -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-   "Professor Blaikie said in the Edinburgh Daily Review at this time: "It is almost amusing to observe how entirely the latent distrust of Mr. Sankey's "kist o' whistles" has disappeared. There are different ways of using the organ. There are organs in some churches for mere display, as some one has said, 'with a devil in every pipe;' but a small harmonium, designed to keep the tune right, is a different matter, and is seen to be no hindrance to the devout and spiritual worship of God".   -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o   Actually, the ancient Scots term "Kist o'whussles" is a well-known medical chest condition begat of climbers; especially those who suffer chill winds around the Trossachs region.   The history is a little obscure, but the first evidence came to light with the discovery of a Haggis pelt poltice close to the summit of Bidean Nam Bian, in the Glencoe Mountains, on which had been written the words "Dab yer kist twa a'day" and bearing the signature of one "Dr.Cameron - Tannochbrae".   Genetic investigation demonstrated that the Haggis pelt had been coated with wild-honey, finest malt whiskey, heather seeds and herbs, and after more than a century, still remained supple and retained a not unpleasant odour.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell (named after "Mad Mitch" of the Southern & Argyll regiment)       --- TheShieling <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> wrote: >   > Actually, that should be "kist o' whussles." I > forgive you - you are not > Scottish by descent or intention. > :-)       Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html    
(back) Subject: organ nonsense From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 05:56:34 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   Is there a "General Cancel" at West Point?   The there was the lady who got very annoyed with Simon Preston (then Organist of Westminster Abbey in London).   She performed an hilarious "spoonerism" as she screeched, "Oh! Press off Piston!"   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK         __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Non-Greek organic words no.2 From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 05:59:51 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   Trust Jarle!   THAT'S what I meant.   Regards,   Colin MItchell UK     --- Jarle Fagerheim <jarle_fagerheim@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: The $7,000,000 question > is then: Is the > Arabian word derived from Greek/Latin, or does it > have a separate etymology?       Discover Yahoo! Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/online.html  
(back) Subject: Re: Non-Greek organic words no.2 From: "Jarle Fagerheim" <jarle_fagerheim@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 15:06:12 +0200   Colin Mitchell wrote: > The Arabs called it the "arganum", the Assyrians > called it "Symphoneia" and the Semites called it > "Ugab". Who were "the Semites", and what language did they speak? Arabic, Hebrew, Akkadian, and Amharic are all semitic languages.   > Personally, I always like the Scottish term for the > organ, "Kist o'whistles" (Literally a "chest of > whistles"), which is definitely NOT Greek in origin Well, "kist" (south-west Norwegian, Old Norse, and Proto-Germanic "kista"), is an early borrowing from Latin "cista", which in turn borrowed it from ... Greek! "Whistle" can be traced in a straight line from Modern English to Proto-Indo-European, though.   -- Beste helsing / Best wishes / Beste Gr=FC=DFe / Bestu kvedjur   Jarle Fagerheim   jarle_fagerheim@yahoo.co.uk www: http://jarle.moo.no  
(back) Subject: RE: Non-Greek organic words no.2 From: "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu> Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 09:02:00 -0700   > >>Personally, I always like the Scottish term for the >organ, "Kist o'whistles" (Literally a "chest of >whistles"), > >Actually, that should be "kist o' whussles." I forgive you - you are not >Scottish by descent or intention. >:-) > >Ross   Funny how terms travel accross languages: never knew there was a Scottish word "kist". since Dutch also has "kist" meaning wooden box or crate.   John V --  
(back) Subject: Re: Non-Greek organic words no.2 From: "Larry McGuire" <larry@duntarvie.f2s.com> Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 14:51:20 +0100   Hi John et al   The Scottish (as against the Irish) version of Gaelic, along with the actual 'Scots' language itself, contains many words similar or identical to those found in Dutch and German.   I have been told, that if one can speak Gaelic or Dutch, then it is easy to learn to speak the other . . .   A 'kist o' whistles' as well as being the (ancient) Scots name for a pipe organ, is also sometimes used colloquially as a derogatory term for an organ . . . . .   But we musn't broach the reasons why . . . :-)   Larry McGuire       John Vanderlee wrote:   >> >>> Personally, I always like the Scottish term for the >> >> organ, "Kist o'whistles" (Literally a "chest of >> whistles"), >> >> Actually, that should be "kist o' whussles." I forgive you - you are = not >> Scottish by descent or intention. >> :-) >> >> Ross > > > Funny how terms travel accross languages: never knew there was a > Scottish word "kist". since Dutch also has "kist" meaning wooden box > or crate. > > John V       -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.8 - Release Date: 10/05/2005    
(back) Subject: Re: Teach them how to play hymns From: <Adivds@aol.com> Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 09:52:33 EDT   Monty, Yes, you are quite right! My sister, who is a flautist, is always ribbing me about the fact that organists have no sense of rhythm, much to my annoyance. But I have to = admit that part of that annoyance is because she is right. I do have to say, though, = it doesn't apply to me as only last week at a confirmation service that I = played for, I was complimented on how rhythmic my playing was (especially in the =   hymns). I asked the director of music at the church (who gave me the = complment) if she would tell my sister!! I think that organists have a lot going against them in terms of the disciplines of music making that players of other instruments do not. One = reason for instance, is that the organ is one of those rare instruments (although undoubtedly complicated) that you don't need to learn the technique of = producing notes on it as you would with say, a flute where you need to master = embouchure before you can do anything else. So, many organists start to run before = they can walk, especially if they havn't honed their keyboard technique at a piano first. Organists can become slipshod musicians if they don't get = corrcet instruction from a good teacher. The shame is that many don't. I think it = was Sir Thomas Beecham that said that there are singers, organists, and = musicians. As for what you say about learning to play with a metronome, I can't agree = more! I know several musicians who abhor the use of metronomes saying that = they are too rigid, can you believe that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Its akin to someone learning to ride a bike without using stabilisers first. I'm glad that someone has brought this subject up as I feel that it is important. Okay, so maybe we can play the complete works of Messiaen, = Bach, & Reger backwards, upside down, and all at one sitting, but if we can't = play hymns in a way to enthuse our congregations, what's the point? Just another thought......... Adrian.  
(back) Subject: Re: Organ Nonsense (actual) From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 09:58:00 EDT   From a 1920s typewritten document by The United States Pipe Organ Company = of Crum Lynne, Pennsylvania, a description of their popular 2/5 model, which = sold more than any other.   A pedal stop:   4' Orchestral Diapason   SMG  
(back) Subject: Re: Non-Greek organic words no.2 From: "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu> Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 10:32:46 -0700   >Hi John et al > >The Scottish (as against the Irish) version of Gaelic, along with >the actual 'Scots' language itself, contains many words similar or >identical to those found in Dutch and German. >I have been told, that if one can speak Gaelic or Dutch, then it is >easy to learn to speak the other . . .   Cool.. than that means I could learn Gaelic!   Anyhow, that is not really the first time I noted similarities. I always wondered about the term "Wassail" which I believe is Gaelic in origin? I was told that it is a wish for good "health" a term derived from the Gaelic "heal" ( Ok Tell me if I am off base here) meaning "whole" in this case. Obviously meaning if you are whole you are healthy.   So.... "wassail" comes from a Gaelic term "waes heal" which literally means "be whole" and co-incidentally "wees heel" is a very archaic Dutch way of saying "be whole" or "be healthy".   Any superior linguists out there can probably add-on or correct this = trivia.   BTW "Here we come a-wassailing" is one of my favorite Christmas tunes on a Radio city Music hall record - to keep this marginally on topic, although a bit off-seasson!   John V   --  
(back) Subject: Re: Organ Nonsense From: <Adivds@aol.com> Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 10:46:00 EDT   Dear Pipe chatters, How about: 1' Contra Piccolo 2' Double Fifteenth 32' Octave Sub-Bourdon IV Blunt Mixture X Empty Mixture 8' Lieblich Tromba 8' Trompette d'Bande III Dolly Mixture 8' Crumpet 8' Hohl Fruit 8' Cream Horn 8' Nason Cornopean 8' Spitz Regal 1/2' Octave Superoctave 1/4' Superoctave Octave Superoctave The last two are just plain stupid!!!!!! There is a 32' Serpent at Balckburn Cathedral which has a snake engraved = on the stopknob. Adrian.  
(back) Subject: Teach them how to bike with stabilisers From: "Jarle Fagerheim" <jarle_fagerheim@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 17:02:12 +0200   Chatters,   I couldn't agree more about organists lacking skills in hymn playing. Personally I believe playing hymns *well* is an art, just like playing the reportoire. It needs to be practised, and when organists don't practise, they usually don't play too well. Many students seem to concentrate on reportoire only, and that's a shame, I think. Hymn playing is really fun!   However, I don't think Adrian's "bike stabilisers" analogy is a very good one. Stabilisers (US: "training wheels") teach dependency, not balance. They're useful for those who have general balance difficulties, but for most people there are other much more effective ways to learn biking *well*. The metronome is a much more useful tool; it doesn't teach musicality, but it can help improving it.   Make a good mix of everything. Practise reportoire, hymns, improvisation, with and without metronome, on as many keyboard and non-keyboard instruments as possible, discuss it, and never forget to HAVE FUN!   -- Beste helsing / Best wishes / Beste Gr=FC=DFe / Bestu kvedjur   Jarle Fagerheim   jarle_fagerheim@yahoo.co.uk www: http://jarle.moo.no  
(back) Subject: Re: Organ Nonsense From: "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu> Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 11:19:22 -0700   > >8' Nason Cornopean     Ok, and here is a plain ignorant question - IS there such a thing as a "Nason"? (I get the joke)   Still learning....   John V     --  
(back) Subject: Re: Organ Nonsense From: <Adivds@aol.com> Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 11:45:15 EDT   John V, Yes, Nason Flute is an actual stop name. Adrian.  
(back) Subject: Re: Organ Nonsense From: "Brad Richards" <richards_brad@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 15:57:23 +0000   At the OHS convention last yr in Buffalo. There was an organ which had = the stoplist in the program... I cannot remember which one, which had a 4/5' Chivas Regal. Was the missing 1/5 of Chivas Regal at the console or the pulpit? btw, the stoplist even said (drawknob only) no pipes, but did not =   say "no bottles". LOL   I have also heard of an orchestral diapason. Which orchestra had the diapason that this stop was named for?     Brad R. Richards idiot in residence Frels Pipe Organs      
(back) Subject: RE: Questions I have about Mono Recordings From: "David Boothe" <dmboothe@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 10:28:22 -0700 (PDT)   The "Red Book," which is the standard for audio CDs, requires two audio channels. Any CD which is a mono recording will have the same thing recorded on both channels, but it still must have 2 channels to be a "Red Book" CD.   If the carillon recording is mono it is either:   1. A "Red Book" CD with the same thing on both channels, or   2. A data CD with mono sound files, possibly in some obscure or proprietary format.   If #1 is the case, it should play in your CD player just fine. If #2 is the case, you CD player won't even recognize it as a CD and just give you a blank stare.     -David.   --- Will Light <will.light@btinternet.com> wrote: > I don't think a mono recording would play slowly > Channing. In a stero > recording there are two "tracks" which are slightly > different, recorded by > two different microphones - rather like we have two ears. > When it is played back we can hear where the instruments > in the orchestra > are placed, like we can with our ears. > A mono recording is made with just one microphone. If it > is put onto a CD > then both the two tracks will have exactly the same > recording on them. When > you play it, it will not be slow - you will just not get > the same "spacial > layout" information - it will just all come from the > centre of the sound > image. > > Will Light > Coventry UK > > -----Original Message----- > From: pipechat@pipechat.org > [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of > Channing Ashbaugh > Sent: 11 May 2005 02:41 > To: PipeChat > Subject: Re: Questions I have about Mono Recordings > > Hello everyone > > > I have some questions about Mono recordings I have > heard Carillon CDs for > > carillon CD Players are recorded in mono and if you put > these mono > recordings in a cd player like a computer cd-rom or a > jambox it would sound > slow I have interest in hearing a mono recording that > sounds slow I am > doing a report on this . Has anyone ever heard a mono > recorded CD play slow > > before? Has anyone ever tried makeing some mp3s or a wav > file from a mono > recorded cd? If you know the answers please e-mail me at > channing28270@yahoo.com > > channing > > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & > related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & > related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > >     Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html    
(back) Subject: Re: Organ Nonsense From: "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com> Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 12:33:43 -0500   >At the OHS convention last yr in Buffalo. There was an organ which >had the stoplist in the program... I cannot remember which one, >which had a 4/5' Chivas Regal. Was the missing 1/5 of Chivas Regal >at the console or the pulpit? btw, the stoplist even said (drawknob >only) no pipes, but did not say "no bottles". LOL   Brad   That was the Noehren at First Pres. I know of at least one other Noehren with that stop knob on it - St. Richard's Episcopal Church in Chicago where the knob controls the light in the Swell Box   David  
(back) Subject: Re: Organ Nonsense From: "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 12:33:16 -0500   Ahh yes -- Robert Noehren in one of his lighter moments, IIRC. Bet that bottle has made it to the pulpit at some time or other. Probably all around the choir loft too...? <g> (I think it was an Episcopal church)   And the "Orchestral Diapason" would be, of course, the heroic stop that makes the little 5 rank US Pipe Organ sound like a huge 5-manual concert organ. Or something like that. I'm almost certain I read that in the brochure... ;-) :-)   Cheers -- Tim   At 10:57 AM 5/11/2005, Brad wrote: >At the OHS convention last yr in Buffalo. There was an organ which had >the stoplist in the program... I cannot remember which one, which had a >4/5' Chivas Regal. Was the missing 1/5 of Chivas Regal at the console or =   >the pulpit? btw, the stoplist even said (drawknob only) no pipes, but = did >not say "no bottles". LOL      
(back) Subject: trills toward the end of BWV 651 From: "Robert Lind" <lindr@core.com> Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 12:44:15 -0500     In planning to play Bach's Fantasia on "Komm, heiliger Geist ..." (S. 651 [No. 1 from the Great 18]) this Sunday, I'm a bit puzzled once again by = the trills and the presence, and sometimes lack, of closing notes. I use the Peters Edition--Volume VII, and the first trill is in the very last = measure of p. 8.   1. The trills in the next 3 measures do not have closing notes. Seems to = me I should add closing notes to the first 2 of these and leave the 3rd one = as is (m. 3 at the top of p. 9) because it doesn't work in the downward-voice-leading context.   2. Should one be as consistent as possible in playing these trills (i.e., speed of trill and use of closing notes where possible) or doesn't it = matter all that much? I'm not aware of what the most up-to-date, historically-informed notions are and can take the heat if you want to flamb=E9 me for my ignorance--providing you have proper fuel to add to the fire. :-)   This Bach passage is also intriguing for the parallel fifths and octaves (among other intervals) the trills introduce against other voices and = makes me wonder if performers today are too worried about "wrong" parallelisms when they want to throw in a cadential trill in Baroque music.   Many thanks for your help,   Robert Lind