PipeChat Digest #5332 - Thursday, May 12, 2005
 
Re: The Wedding from HELL!
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Organ Nonsense
  by "Nathan Smith" <erzahler@sbcglobal.net>
RE: Organ Nonsense
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com>
Re: improvisation, organ design and standards (digest 5330)
  by "robertelms" <robertelms@westnet.com.au>
Re: Non-Greek organic words no.2
  by "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu>
Why is a fine pipe organ important?
  by "Ned Benson" <nbenson@stjohnschurch.org>
what's going on lately??
  by "Randy Terry" <randy@peacham.homeip.net>
Re: Organ Nonsense
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Organ Nonsense
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Organ Nonsense
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Organ Nonsense
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Why is a fine pipe organ important?
  by <AGODRDANB@aol.com>
Re: The Wedding from HELL! (A triffle long)
  by <AGODRDANB@aol.com>
Re: improvisation, organ design and standards (digest 5330)
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: The Wedding from HELL! (A triffle long)
  by "Richard Hazelip" <rhazelip1@yahoo.com>
acoustical question
  by <blueeyedbear@aol.com>
Re: Organ Nonsense
  by "N. Russotto" <ravenrockdesigns@gmail.com>
Re: acoustical question
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
RE:  Acoustical Question
  by "Russ Parker" <rparker@heightscpc.org>
 

(back) Subject: Re: The Wedding from HELL! From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 02:46:50 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   I swear this to be a true story.   During the Chilean crisis under the rule of Pinochet, we had two young people turn up as refugees in the parish, where they stayed for quite some time.   I became quite friendly with them, and when they announced that they were to marry, I was invited to be the best man at the church where I played the organ.   They didn't know too many people, and the families were all back in Chile. This meant that few would be at the wedding.....a total of six to be exact.   The happy day came, and I had the task of standing next to the happy groom for MUCH of the nuptials, except when there was a hymn, when I would shuffle away to the organ-console to play.   This worked quite well, until the lady holding the happy couple's baby fainted, and I went to the rescue. Now, holding onto a baby is not THAT difficult. They squirm a bit and make strange shrieking noises from time to time, but nothing which cannot be managed.   HOWEVER!   When the next hymn came up, I looked around desperately for a substitute "nanny," only to discover that, of the three remaining people at the wedding, one had a walking-frame, one was heavily pregnant and the third had gone outside to tend the one who had fainted.   As a consequence, the last hymn and the final "Wedding March" were hastily re-arranged for right hand and pedals only.   The baby smiled at me throughout, but in retrospect, I'm awfully glad it wasn't the Widor Toccata at the end.   Regards,   Colin MItchell UK       --- Harry Grove <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk> wrote: > Well, not exactly the Wedding from Hell ............ > but !     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Organ Nonsense From: "Nathan Smith" <erzahler@sbcglobal.net> Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 07:41:57 -0400   Hi List,   Here's a bit of pipe organ double entendre (clean) for you...   You know, I have a soft spot for all of the organs I take care of, but there's this one organ, this one little organ, that is a bit of a problem child. Now don't get me wrong, I love it, and I treat it just like all of the other organs. It is the ultimate expression of a Heinz 57 variety organ, with parts coming from every manufacturer possible, and sort of patched together into an organ. It has pipes, and it plays, but it is a constant source of trouble as we draw out all of the bugs out of it. This last week, it was really throwing a fit, and while we were scratching our heads at what to do (while trying not to drain the Church's funds), I came up with an advertising slogan for the builder of this proud little instrument:   "The last pipe organ you'll ever buy!"   Best,   Nathan    
(back) Subject: RE: Organ Nonsense From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 07:00:29 -0500   Malcolm's stop is the best one yet, but reminds me of the church I visited last fall in Pensacola, where at the light switch was a little sign stating "Jesus off". It was meant to cut the light out behind the stained glass window.   Glenda Sutton gksjd85@direcway.com     -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of Malcolm Wechsler   I did report the following once before, but probably eight or ten years ago, and on PipOrg-L. It is true.   I visited All Saints', Wynnewood once, just outside of Philadelphia. Peter Conte had been Organist there at one time, and had caused to be engraved a blank stop now with the legend: "Pulpit Off." Can you top that?        
(back) Subject: Re: improvisation, organ design and standards (digest 5330) From: "robertelms" <robertelms@westnet.com.au> Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 20:13:41 +0800   Ah yes, John I have been to Sydney, in both St.Andrew's and in St Mary's Cathedral where the new LeTourneau stands. However, I specifically said = "my state", and that is Western Australia. I live 3962 km (2476 miles) from St =   Andrew's Cathedral so I don't drop in for organ recitals or services very often. However I am well acquainted with Mark Quarmby and some of the = other organists in the Eastern States (Melbourne is 3401 km distant from me and Adelaide, the closest of the other capitals, is 2670 km. My capital city, Perth, is the most isolated capital city in the world). I know that they = are world class players with improvisational skills and wonderful service playing. However, I repeat, in this state of mine such skills would be relatively rare. There are several West Australian players who would be = able to improvise at length and with skill, Simon Lawford, John Beaverstock, Stewart Smith, Dominic Perissinotto to mention a few, but they are not the =   usual run of church organists in this state; they play in the central city =   churches, professionals or semi professionals. Also all are imports from elsewhere including the UK. Improvisation does NOT concern me, John. I can run on and doodle for a couple of minutes or three which is all that is ever required of me, and = of the average church organist in this state. The important part of my job is =   voluntary and hymn playing, which, I am often told, I do very well. I did not say that; someone else did!! Of the others I have met and heard June Nixon and I play some of her compositions, which are very fine. Many are published by Mayhew. I don't know any Robert Heywood, but I do know of Thomas Heywood will be playing = in my church here on July 8 in a recital. I have met many of the other Australian organists through my position as a =   Committeeman of the Organ Historic Trust of Australia which holds a = National Conference each year alternating round the states and New Zealand. Conferences are held every year, and I have heard many of them play. I = can't get to all of these Conferences because of distance and my age, but I organized the National Conference of the Trust in West Australia in 1993 = and chaired the organizing Committee for the Trust Conference in Perth in = 2004. Incidentally, I was the compiler of the Gazetteer of West Australian Pipe =   Organs which you can see on the OHTA website. Maybe you have seen that. = The work entailed visiting, and photographing most of the pipe organs in this state.They are spread over a distance of 900km north to south and almost = the same west to east. Regards to all, Bob Elms.   ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Foss" <harkat@kat.forthnet.gr> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 4:22 PM Subject: Re: improvisation, organ design and standards (digest 5330) > Firstly, let's look at improvisation, a subject which seems to concern = Bob > Elms in Australia and several members from the US. Bob - have you never > visited Sydney? Within a couple of hundred yards of each other are the > Cathedral of St Andrew and St James' Church, King Street. Mark Quarmby = can > be heard improvising in the British Cathedral tradition at St Andrew's = to > a highly professional standard and David Drury, who was winner of the > Tournemire Prize for Improvisation at the St Alban's International Organ =   > Festival, can be heard at St James' Sunday by Sunday. Certainly when I > attended a Sunday service there last September his concluding voluntary, =   > an improvisation, drew together the musical threads of the service - the =   > hymns and the anthem - in what I could best describe as a set of > variations ending in a double fugue. Outstanding! Melbourne also has > organists such as Douglas Lawrence, Robert Heywood and June Nixon who = are > skilled proponents of this art. >       -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.8 - Release Date: 10/05/2005    
(back) Subject: Re: Non-Greek organic words no.2 From: "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu> Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 08:37:58 -0700   >hopefully this isn't too far away from the spirit of all of this.... > >For the uninitiated the console is "the organ"   Aint that the truth....   Our local theater is undergoing major HVAC renovation during the summer. We have a II -10 Wurlitzer there. Imagine my shock when I received an email last Tuesday from the stage manager saying he just came from the "pre-construction meeting " and that we were expected to "have the organ removed and stored for the duration". I emailed back and asked: "you mean the whole organ?" he replied: "yes".   Hoping for the best I phoned the house manager who confirmed that it was just the console they wanted moved. (It's on wheels and plugs in)   Exhale.....   John V --  
(back) Subject: Why is a fine pipe organ important? From: "Ned Benson" <nbenson@stjohnschurch.org> Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 08:32:20 -0700   I am planning a fund-raising program for our new organ. One of the questions which needs must be addressed is, "why is a fine pipe organ important for the worship and music of the church?"   I know it is a question which List Reades may consider absurd and the answer self-evident, but for Joe and Jane Pewsitter, believe me, it is anything but. I mean the folks, who may be the majority in this congregation (if not in yours), who have never played any musical instrument other than a comb or kazoo (if that), who sing only in church (sort of) and the shower (lustily), can't tell the difference between recorded or imitation and live, and say things like "the organist always plays too loud!" Even so they love their church, say "I know what I like and I like what our choir sings," want to support their church and its music program, and do not like "happy-clappy" (but will tolerate it if the youth do it a couple of times a year - they are after all YOUTH and we love them - so long as they don't have to join in with any enthusiasm).   Funding in the church almost always follows the 80-20 pattern: 80% of the $ comes from 20% of the people. I need here to address the 80% of the people who will at best provide 20% of the funding for the new organ. Their financial support is vital (remember the "widow's mite"), and even more their personal emotional support, their endorsement, is vital. It is after all "their church" into which we want to put a fine pipe organ.   Our organist/choir director is working on this but her gifts are far more for musical expression than the written word, and if I've learned anything from reading this List for a year, is that most of y'all have got writing chops as good as your musical chops!   So Dear List Readers, please help out this simple pastor and respond to the question, "Why is a fine pipe organ important for the worship and music program of the church?"   Thanks and God bless. Dr. Ned H. Benson St. John's Presbyterian - Reno, Nevada      
(back) Subject: what's going on lately?? From: "Randy Terry" <randy@peacham.homeip.net> Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 09:46:47 -0700   Just a simple comment, more than a question, but just when I thought = things were settling down in the type-of-action, type-of-tonal-style departments, not to mention good vs. bad builders - here we go again.   I thought we had decided to appreciate the best in all styles, and to seek the music buried in all instruments. The only reason I see for these continuing discussions on all lists is that people like to get their feathers ruffled and squawk for squawking's sake!   I actually enjoyed revisiting these subjects early on, but like a soap opera, the longer the thread goes on (not so much on this list, thanks be = to God!) the more far out the arguments get.   Oh, well, what ever floats our boats!   Cheers! Randy   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Randy Terry Music Minister The Episcopal Church of St. Peter Redwood City, California        
(back) Subject: Re: Organ Nonsense From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 11:01:42 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   I like that Nathan.   Perhaps an equally obtuse slogan might be:-   "When this organ was built, a better instrument could not be found"   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK     --- Nathan Smith <erzahler@sbcglobal.net> wrote:   > > Here's a bit of pipe organ double entendre > (clean) for you... > > "The last pipe organ you'll ever buy!" >     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Organ Nonsense From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 11:01:59 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   I like that Nathan.   Perhaps an equally obtuse slogan might be:-   "When this organ was built, a better instrument could not be found"   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK     --- Nathan Smith <erzahler@sbcglobal.net> wrote:   > > Here's a bit of pipe organ double entendre > (clean) for you... > > "The last pipe organ you'll ever buy!" >     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Organ Nonsense From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 11:01:57 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   I like that Nathan.   Perhaps an equally obtuse slogan might be:-   "When this organ was built, a better instrument could not be found"   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK     --- Nathan Smith <erzahler@sbcglobal.net> wrote:   > > Here's a bit of pipe organ double entendre > (clean) for you... > > "The last pipe organ you'll ever buy!" >     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Organ Nonsense From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 11:01:59 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   I like that Nathan.   Perhaps an equally obtuse slogan might be:-   "When this organ was built, a better instrument could not be found"   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK     --- Nathan Smith <erzahler@sbcglobal.net> wrote:   > > Here's a bit of pipe organ double entendre > (clean) for you... > > "The last pipe organ you'll ever buy!" >       Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html    
(back) Subject: Re: Why is a fine pipe organ important? From: <AGODRDANB@aol.com> Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 14:03:23 EDT   Dear Dr. Ned; I wish you the greatest success in your fund raising efforts. In responce to you question "Why a fine Pipe Organ", you may borrow from one of my apeals . It is a scriptural refference, (please pardon my spelling I = still can't get get my spell check to work!!!) Where it speaks in the = old testament of "First Fruits" and that a sacrifice or offering = must be the finest, and without blemish, anything less is un suitable = as an offering to Our Lord. This is not to say that your need to spend a gagillion dollars = on a 12 manual Rufatti, but buying a used Thomas at the Goodwill is not good = enough either.The congregation should appreciate the purpose to = which a church's organ is put, and consider providing a suitable = instrument to offer Praise and Worship. And some degree of 'sacrifice' may be in order. Again, the best of Luck to you! Dr. Dan  
(back) Subject: Re: The Wedding from HELL! (A triffle long) From: <AGODRDANB@aol.com> Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 14:16:43 EDT   Helo list, here's my sort of hell-ish wedding story. Some years ago I accompanied my sister to friend's wedding, I didn't know the girl but she was a good college friend of my =   sister's, i was just along to keep my sister company on a = rather long drive. As we were entering the church the ushers were franticly asking = each guest if he or she played the organ. Apparantly the scheduled organist hadn't shown up! I was voluntered by my sister, and forced into service. FYI = most Hymnals have the Hymn "Joyful Joyful We Adore Thee' which is of course from Beethovens 9Th and makes a real nifty processional, = especially if the organ has Enchamade Trumpets! I was rescued shortly into the service when the Organist of choice arrived, having gotten very lost. Dr. Dan  
(back) Subject: Re: improvisation, organ design and standards (digest 5330) From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 11:31:58 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   I have been told that I can improvise well, but I have great self doubt. Nevertheless, I have on tape a whole monothematic rambling which lasts about 16 minutes and is kind of interesting, and I have been known to throw in the odd (very odd!) improvisation at recitals.   However, I am absolutely in awe of David Briggs, who MUST be the one outstanding improvisational genius in the UK, and who can certainly hold his own against the best in the world.   It would be a mistake to assume that the French are unique in the improvisational abilities.....they are not!   In the Netherlands, improvisation is often heard at the conclusion of many recitals, and some of them are good if a bit "over structured" and quasi-contrapuntal.   It is actually quite easy to "invent" a French Toccata on the fly, and the slow atmospherics of Langlais or Durufle are not very difficult to emulate; all one needs is an ability to think sideways and draw on what is already there within us all. Perhaps it's a bit like writing....the more we read and the more we are able to write, until eventually, the creative juices start to flow.   Of course, people talk about "improvisation", but there is surely a distinction to be made between that which is created around a theme (improvisation) and that which is "free" EXTEMPORISATION.   I recently came across some absolutely outstanding improvisations/extemporisations (not sure which) from the former Eastern Bloc....I think they were either from Hungary or the Czech Republic, but one of them is a very coherent 18 minutes long and absolutely enthralling. If I can find the URL's, I'll post the details.   Having only briefly been involved in organ-building, and that being a long time ago, I am probably not terribly abreast of current organ-building details. I wonder if the great and good Stephen Bicknell was referring to tonal artistry or structural integrity, or both.   I think I might want to take issue with the statement as presented to us. Some of the restoration work in Holland and elsewhere has been to a very high standard, which shows that at least a proportion of European organ-builders do actually know what they are doing. The work of Ahrend has been legendary, and the Flentrop restoration(s) at Alkmaar are simply wonderful.   Tonally, I have played some superb European organs stretching back across the past thirty years.....organs by Rieger, Nicholson, Kenneth Jones, van der Heuvel, Frobenius and Flentrop to name but a few. Surely that hasn't been totally lost in recent years, has it? (I've never liked the sound of either Metzler organs or Klais of Bonn, but that's probably just "me")   Of course, people took "time" to build organ in the the 17th & 18th centuries.....wasn't it 7 years at Haarlem? They not only had extremely skilled traditional craftsmen who studied long and hard as articled apprentices, they seemed to be a close-knit community who shared knowledge. (The interchange betweeen Cavaille-Coll and "foreign" organ-builders was remarkable) They also had the pick of the forest when it came to quality timber.   I've always maintained that the perfect place to be an organ-builder exporting to the world, is Romania, where they have a long tradition of wood craftsmanship and plenty of excellent timber on the doorstep.   Of course, tonal artistry is another matter. In any one generation, I doubt that there are more than a handful of really great voicers on the planet, and perhaps only once a century do the likes of Silbermann, Schnitger or Schulze come along. It is also true to say that tonal artistry follows specific "schools" of thought, and if we look at the superb old organs of the Netherlands, and the stability of a tonal style covering about 150 years, it is not difficult to understand why the organs are so good.   A Hinzse organ is only second to a Schnitger; the man who trained him, and the wife of whom he eventually married. He was typical of organ-builders who knew what was required, knew how to do it and spent a LOT of time getting it right.   If tonal artists to-day have a major problem, it is surely that there are so many conflicting tonal requirements. How does a voicer become the best, if he (she?) is required to know everything about French/German/Dutch/English/American Classic AND combination organs, with the added possibility that all of them (except perhaps the American Classic) could be baroque, late baroque, early romantic, late romantic, neo-classical or a combination thereof!   Of course, there may be another reason.   Organ builders didn't get paid until their clients were totally satisfied with the finished product in the 18th century!   Money has a habit of clarifying the mind, and perhaps money is just a little too easy to earn these days.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK     --- John Foss <harkat@kat.forthnet.gr> wrote:     > Quentin Bellamy also seemed to be bemoaning the > standard of improvisation in > the UK - maybe improvisation of the concert type is > a skill most highly > developed by the French.   > Stephen Bicknell's article on organ building in the > Europe seems to suggest > that there is no one in Europe capable of holding a > candle to the US at the > moment.         __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail  
(back) Subject: Re: The Wedding from HELL! (A triffle long) From: "Richard Hazelip" <rhazelip1@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 11:38:51 -0700 (PDT)   >FYI most Hymnals have the Hymn "Joyful Joyful We Adore Thee' which = is of course from Beethovens 9Th and makes a real nifty = processional, especially if the organ has Enchamade Trumpets!< So - did the hymnal not have Joyful Joyful? just curious!   Richard       --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.
(back) Subject: acoustical question From: <blueeyedbear@aol.com> Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 15:00:41 -0400   i have a question & need some advice from the acoustical experts. here's = the set-up: we have a 3-manual organ, each manual in its own expression chamber at the = rear of the chancel. from the congregation, looking at the back wall of = the chancel the chambers are, from left to right, swell, choir, and great. = access is made from an office to the left of the swell into the swell. = between the swell and choir is a door, and between the choir and great is = a door. so in order to get to the great, you must go through the other = two divisions. when the organ is turned off, all shutters open automatically. shouldn't = the doors between the chambers be kept closed? scot  
(back) Subject: Re: Organ Nonsense From: "N. Russotto" <ravenrockdesigns@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 14:09:49 -0500   One of the local RC churches (name witheld) had an organ (Casavant) that was removed last year. It had a stop labelled "K.O." for Knock Out-- for Lights out, because that stop controlled the light of the rose window .     NFR   On 5/12/05, Colin Mitchell <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > Hello, >=20 > I like that Nathan. >=20 > Perhaps an equally obtuse slogan might be:- >=20 > "When this organ was built, a better instrument could > not be found" >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Colin Mitchell UK >=20 >=20 > --- Nathan Smith <erzahler@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >=20 > >=20 > > Here's a bit of pipe organ double entendre > > (clean) for you... > > =20 > > "The last pipe organ you'll ever buy!" > >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =09=09 > Yahoo! Mail > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: > http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html >=20 >=20 > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> >=20 >=20     --=20 Nicholas F. Russotto Somers, Connecticut Organist, Holy Cross PNCC Enfield, Connecticut Moderator/Owner: Monarch of Music=20 http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/monarch_of_music/  
(back) Subject: Re: acoustical question From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 15:21:28 EDT   In a message dated 05/12/05 3:02:02 PM, blueeyedbear@aol.com writes:   << shouldn't the doors between the chambers be kept closed?>>   Of course they should. It's not a question of acoustics. Whoever is taking care of the instrument should have learned this their = first week in the business.    
(back) Subject: RE: Acoustical Question From: "Russ Parker" <rparker@heightscpc.org> Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 13:34:06 -0600   Yes, they should be kept closed . . . the primary reason being that with = them open, sound will leak into the neighboring chamber, thus reducing = the effectiveness of the shutters.