PipeChat Digest #5335 - Friday, May 13, 2005
 
RE: Teach them how to bike with stabilisers
  by "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com>
Re: Teach them how to bike with stabilisers
  by "Larry McGuire" <larry@duntarvie.f2s.com>
Re: improvisation, organ design and standards (digest 5330)
  by "robertelms" <robertelms@westnet.com.au>
Re: Shieling
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Dirtiest organ story - a new thread
  by <Wuxuzusu@aol.com>
Re: Dirtiest organ story - a new thread
  by "Jim McFarland" <mcfarland6@juno.com>
Re: Bats in your belfry
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
This week's mp3 - So Love One Another
  by "Jonathan Orwig" <giwro@adelphia.net>
Re: Dirtiest organ story - a new thread
  by <BlueeyedBear@aol.com>
Conn info needed
  by "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu>
Re: Dirtiest organ story - a new thread
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
EASTERN EUROPE - POLAND
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
 

(back) Subject: RE: Teach them how to bike with stabilisers From: "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com> Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 10:48:26 +0100   Hear hear! And one other thing- as well as playing the hymn itself rhythmically, you should play the gap between the play-over and the = first verse, and the pauses between verses rhythmically too - the hymn is then all-of-a-piece.... Last week I was in the congregation when my deputy was playing - he = doesn't do what I suggest above - there are apparently random pauses at the end = of lines and between stanzas... it unsettled the congregation to such an = extent that they almost stopped singing once or twice...     Will Light Coventry UK   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of Jarle Fagerheim Sent: 11 May 2005 16:02 To: PipeChat Subject: Teach them how to bike with stabilisers   Chatters,   I couldn't agree more about organists lacking skills in hymn playing.=20 Personally I believe playing hymns *well* is an art, just like playing=20 the reportoire. It needs to be practised, and when organists don't=20 practise, they usually don't play too well. Many students seem to=20 concentrate on reportoire only, and that's a shame, I think. Hymn=20 playing is really fun!   However, I don't think Adrian's "bike stabilisers" analogy is a very=20 good one. Stabilisers (US: "training wheels") teach dependency, not=20 balance. They're useful for those who have general balance difficulties, =   but for most people there are other much more effective ways to learn=20 biking *well*. The metronome is a much more useful tool; it doesn't=20 teach musicality, but it can help improving it.   Make a good mix of everything. Practise reportoire, hymns,=20 improvisation, with and without metronome, on as many keyboard and=20 non-keyboard instruments as possible, discuss it, and never forget to=20 HAVE FUN!   --=20 Beste helsing / Best wishes / Beste Gr=FC=DFe / Bestu kvedjur   Jarle Fagerheim   jarle_fagerheim@yahoo.co.uk www: http://jarle.moo.no   ****************************************************************** "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>    
(back) Subject: Re: Teach them how to bike with stabilisers From: "Larry McGuire" <larry@duntarvie.f2s.com> Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 12:10:42 +0100   I was taught to lead/accompany hymns by a now deceased cathedral organist.   He rarely had more than one hand on the keys, the other (left or right, changing on or between a note mid-phrase as required), was ranging the stops, adding and subtracting a stop or two at a time, very very subtle changes, that probably very few people actually observed in the body of the kirk.   But it made an incredible difference to the way the congregation sang. The other thing was the amount of staccato he used - the building had several seconds of reverberation, and the acoustics made anything played sound legato - so the last thing you wanted to do was play legato, or you ended up with a jumble of noise.   And yes, the bridges between verses and the timing of pauses and breaks, should all be 'on the beat', the rhythm of a hymn is extremely important.   Larry         Will Light wrote:   >Hear hear! And one other thing- as well as playing the hymn itself >rhythmically, you should play the gap between the play-over and the first >verse, and the pauses between verses rhythmically too - the hymn is then >all-of-a-piece.... >Last week I was in the congregation when my deputy was playing - he = doesn't >do what I suggest above - there are apparently random pauses at the end = of >lines and between stanzas... it unsettled the congregation to such an = extent >that they almost stopped singing once or twice... > > >Will Light >Coventry UK > >-----Original Message----- >From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of >Jarle Fagerheim >Sent: 11 May 2005 16:02 >To: PipeChat >Subject: Teach them how to bike with stabilisers > >Chatters, > >I couldn't agree more about organists lacking skills in hymn playing. >Personally I believe playing hymns *well* is an art, just like playing >the reportoire. It needs to be practised, and when organists don't >practise, they usually don't play too well. Many students seem to >concentrate on reportoire only, and that's a shame, I think. Hymn >playing is really fun! > >However, I don't think Adrian's "bike stabilisers" analogy is a very >good one. Stabilisers (US: "training wheels") teach dependency, not >balance. They're useful for those who have general balance difficulties, >but for most people there are other much more effective ways to learn >biking *well*. The metronome is a much more useful tool; it doesn't >teach musicality, but it can help improving it. > >Make a good mix of everything. Practise reportoire, hymns, >improvisation, with and without metronome, on as many keyboard and >non-keyboard instruments as possible, discuss it, and never forget to >HAVE FUN! > > >     -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.9 - Release Date: 12/05/2005    
(back) Subject: Re: improvisation, organ design and standards (digest 5330) From: "robertelms" <robertelms@westnet.com.au> Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 20:26:34 +0800   OK John, all accepted. I never met Michael Dudman in person though he did ring me when he was Director of Music at St George's Cathedral Perth = asking for some details of historic organs in this state (I live 400 km from Perth so I don't travel up there very often). I had just finished = compiling the Gazetteer of WA Pipe Organs published by the Victorian Organ Society, = so I had all the information at hand. He then did some recording for ABC = Radio of historic West Australian organs of which there are still a few that are =   unique in this country - Alfred Monk, Albert Pease, A. Moser, R.C. = Clifton, Alfred Kirkland, plus some vintage Wm Hill in Mosman Park and Albany. It = was most unfortunate that Michael came to an untimely death die to a heart attack. I also met Christopher Dearnley for coffee when he was Acting Director at = St George's and we discussed the new organ which was in process of being installed at the time. There had been controversy raging over whether the large 3 manual Hill/Dodd/Walker organ then in use in the Cathedral should have been replaced by a classically voiced Danish style organ in a completely dead acoustic of the Cathedral. (The controversy over that = still surfaces at times 12 years later!) I also met Christopher at two of the OHTA Conferences. Incidentally my son maintains the Cathedral organ ) and about 20 others round the city including the 4 manual largest Church organ in Australia = in St Patrick's Basilica and also the three manual University 1963 Walker. I hope others are interested in my dribblings as I have given up trying to =   send PN replies on Pipechat. It doesn't work! Regards, Bob Elms. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Foss" <harkat@kat.forthnet.gr> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 3:49 PM Subject: Re: improvisation, organ design and standards (digest 5330)     > Yes, Bob, I appreciate that you went on to mention that there were fine > players in other parts of Australia - though I was under the impression > that you were emphasising the general situation there - ".....making = my > point again this may apply to the USA but not to Australia......." - now =   > you are Australian and live there so obviously know more about the > situation there than I do - it is a very big country - the sixth largest =   > in the world - but the population of 20,000,000 or so seems to produce a =   > disproportionate number of fine organists. I may have been lucky in > hearing Michael Dudman play over 40 years ago now at Grimsby Parish > Church - he was just practising - but I had never heard an organ played > like that before. One occasion Bob Griffiths and I were staying with > Michael, and after Choral Evensong we repaired to the local pub in true > ecclestiastical tradition. This may be reminiscent of Colin Mitchell's > North Country organ ramble stories, but later in the evening we went = back > to St James (Grimsby is in the North of England!) where Michael > entertained us with stories and music, during the course of which we = must > have wandered on to the subject of skills called for in the job of > organist. Somehow or other this led to Michael's playing the Reubke > Sonata from memory whilst transposing it up a semitone. I appreciate = that > this is not a skill often called for in the playing of a service, but = the > ability to transpose and improvise is a useful one, surely? Quite apart > from anything else, it helps the congregation sing hymns which they = might > otherwise find uncomfortable. > Sorry - you are quite right - I meant Thomas Heywood. > > To answer Colin's point ".... It would be a mistake to assume that the > French are unique in the improvisational abilities.....they are not!" I =   > was actually making this point as well. I said that improvisation on a > symphonic scale was an art form perhaps most highly developed in the > French School, but I do appreciate that it is also practised to a high > standard elsewhere. It is probably the fact that there are recordings of =   > organists such as Cochereau, transcriptions by Durufle of Tournemire and =   > genral perceptions that brings this to our attention. Norway is another > country where a school of improvisation exists - I don't know whether = this > is a fairly recent development - no doubt one of our Norwegian members = can > tell us - but Jon Kristian Fjellestad, who has pretty unfettered access = to > the Nidaros Cathedral organ, has sent us several interesting > improvisations both on this instrument and the organ in Hamar Cathedral. =   > He says thay are inspired by these particular organs in these buildings, =   > and certainly a good organ in a rich acoustic lends itself to such > creativity. Once you start playing instinctively you then begin to think =   > about structuring your improvisation. The French don't only improvise > toccatas! Langlais improvised a Prelude and Fugue on John Ireland's tune =   > to the hymn "Come Down O love divine" at Holy Trinity, Sloane Street in > 1971, and Marie Claire Alain a Theme and Variations at the Royal College =   > of Organists in the late 1960's. And to do it well is not so easy, I > think. > > > John Foss > http://www.organsandorganistsonline.com/about.htm > http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/orgofftop/ > > > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.9 - Release Date: 12/05/2005 >       -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.9 - Release Date: 12/05/2005    
(back) Subject: Re: Shieling From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 08:55:57 EDT   I believe "shilling" would be a false cognate.   "Shieling" usually refers to a patch of grass dedicated to grazing cattle, = or a hermitage erected on such a scrap of land. Does the holder of this = screen name live such a spare existence, or do they merely graze while chatting = us up?   Sebastian M. Gluck New York City  
(back) Subject: Dirtiest organ story - a new thread From: <Wuxuzusu@aol.com> Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 09:00:49 EDT   Greetings:   I've not seen this particular thread posted on the chatline, so......   What is your dirtiest (literally, that is) pipe organ story?   I'll start:   While working for a local pipe organ company we went to a small church (location undisclosed to protect the dirty) for service work. My job was = to service the blower located in the belfry. To access the belfry and the = blower I had to crawl under the pipe chest, over the reservoirs and open a small trap door (2'x2') located at floor level just off the reservoir.   I stuck my head through the opening and looked around. My nose was less = than three inches off the floor of the belfry which was covered with an inch = of dried bird droppings.   The entire floor area in the belfry was so covered, an area of about 20'x20'. In the corner on the opposite side of the room sat the blower. = On the third side of the room was located the ladder to access the tower bell assembly =   room some thirty feet higher. A foot high pile of droppings was located = at the bottom of the ladder, and contained a nest of three or four baby birds. = An adult bird lay dead near the blower. Needless to say, I moved carefully = so as to not stir up any dried dropping dust.   Imagine the total environmental picture: The blower starts, startles the birds nesting in the poop, birds stir up droppings dust, blower draws = dust into the organ, organ blows dust out over the choir sitting next to the organ chambers in the balcony, dust settles down over the assembled = worshippers, and...   Does anyone know what diseases are found in bird droppings?   Needless to say, I reported the mess, and later information states that = the area was cleaned up by the church. Yet, knowing what I know now, would I = want to return to the belfry???   Musically, Stan Krider    
(back) Subject: Re: Dirtiest organ story - a new thread From: "Jim McFarland" <mcfarland6@juno.com> Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 10:09:36 -0400     On Fri, 13 May 2005 09:00:49 EDT Wuxuzusu@aol.com writes:   > Does anyone know what diseases are found in bird droppings?     Dear Stan:   The conditions you described are not to be treated lightly.   Histoplasmosis is a respiratory disease that may be fatal. It results from a fungus growing in dried bird droppings, and is acquired by simply inhaling the disturbed "poopdust."   Salmonellosis can be traced to pigeons, starlings and sparrows. The disease bacteria are found in bird droppings, again, simply inhaling the disturbed poopdust!   Yellow mealworms, left in pigeon nests by beetles.   Cryptococcosis is caused by yeast found in the intestinal tract of pigeons and starlings. The illness often begins as a pulmonary disease and may later affect the central nervous system. Again, inhaling PD.   There are probably more. We wear full protection in such environments. Afterwords, we incinerate our clothes, dust masks, and head coverings.     Jim  
(back) Subject: Re: Bats in your belfry From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 07:26:28 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   It must have been the quality of the performance Justin!   At St.Bavo, Haarlem, the bats are totally un-phased by organ music!   Regards,   Colin MItchell UK   PS: Isn't it a flock of bats?   --- Justinhartz@aol.com wrote: > A few years ago, I played my first > recital ...as I played the opening notes of the > recital, a bunch of bats > flew out     Discover Yahoo! Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/mobile.html  
(back) Subject: This week's mp3 - So Love One Another From: "Jonathan Orwig" <giwro@adelphia.net> Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 07:37:14 -0700   Hello friends,   This week our free mp3 dowload is my short choral work "So Love One = Another"   http://evensongmusic.net/audio/solovewACC.mp3   If you want to watch a score while it plays, you can go to:   http://evensongmusic.net/choral.html   scroll down and download a sample copy   Enjoy!   -- Jonathan Orwig Evensong Music, Media and Graphics New Organ Music http://www.evensongmusic.net    
(back) Subject: Re: Dirtiest organ story - a new thread From: <BlueeyedBear@aol.com> Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 10:40:48 EDT   In a message dated 5/13/05 7:11:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time, mcfarland6@juno.com writes:   > Histoplasmosis is a respiratory disease that may be fatal. It results > from a fungus growing in dried bird droppings, and is acquired by simply > inhaling the disturbed "poopdust."   my sister had histoplasmosis in the early 60s and had half a lung removed. = it was due to pigeons roosting in the trees behind our house in memphis.   scot  
(back) Subject: Conn info needed From: "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu> Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 10:42:51 -0700   Hi, I am back to my favorite lists with a question:   Does anyone have the specs for a Conn Model 645 Deluxe? Best I have been able to find is a 646. how different is that model?   As Always, many thanks in advance!   John V  
(back) Subject: Re: Dirtiest organ story - a new thread From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 08:11:34 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   I have many memories of UK organs from the days when I was a tiny little chap at the age of 15, working for a local Northern organ-builder. Being very small.....smaller than I am now, by far.... it usually fell to me to get into those "out of the way" places deep inside the bowels of badly contructed pneumatic-action instruments.   I digress slightly, by stating that at the age of 16, I managed to get to the end of a Yorkshire pot-hole by the name of "Thin man pot".....no mean undertaking! (A bit like going head first through the small gap between the rear rail and seat of a wooden chair, and exiting through the side......which is what I used to do to keep in training!)   Anyway.....this particular organ was buried in a very cramped chamber, with a mass of pneumatic tubing emerging from the rear of the console and the pneumatic coupler machines. That took up 98% of the available floor-space; leaving a small gap under the main reservoirs, under which it was possible to slither on one's back.   This was the ONLY way of getting to the 16ft Bourdon at the far side of the chamber, but to get into position, it was necessary to twist sideways after the reservoir, lift one's legs onto a very fragile walkway, and then somehow hoist one's torso upwards by grabbing the mouths of the pipes with one hand and the linkages of the reservoir with the other.   The organ dated back to 1870 or so, and this was 1965. The organ had never been cleaned, and the area was notable as an industrial one. NEVER have I seen soot and black dust an inch deep EVERYWHERE, but somehow, the old girl kept wheezing along happily; being built like a pocket battleship.   After mending a pouch, it was then time to clamber upwards OVER the swell box (you can imagine the state of THAT) and down to the ethereal and utterly useless enclosed Choir Organ at the back of the Swell Box. With all the pipe tuning slides rusted in place, the organ was always tuned to the Choir Organ initially, which saved us the ordeal of spending time in what was akin to the "Black hole of Calcutta". It was JUST possible, laying on one's side, to tune the awful Clarionet (sic) through the swell box hatches.   Then came the return journey!   I have worked on competition cars while laying on mud, spent time in very muddy, wet caves, slept in a snow drift, larked around with steam trains and as a child, once got into terrible bother when I played in a pile of soot, but NEVER have I been so dirty as when I went to tune that organ!   I can still recall throwing away the corners of my sandwiches after eating lunch.   When the chapel caught fire and the place was totally destroyed, I was absolutely delighted!!   Regards,   Colin MItchell UK     --- Wuxuzusu@aol.com wrote: > Greetings: > > I've not seen this particular thread posted on the > chatline, so...... > > What is your dirtiest (literally, that is) pipe > organ story?     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: EASTERN EUROPE - POLAND From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 08:27:06 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   There are seminal moments in life!   Just when I was getting slightly bored, I stumbled into East European organ culture....... all very historic and interesting........then I hit POLAND!!   I "thought" I knew a bit about organs and organ-history, but have now decided that I know absolutely nothing at all. I suppose I was grounded in those delightful books about "modern organ building",(Herber Norman) or Sumner's "The organ" and all the rest, which are usually very interesting, but have seldom mentioned a great deal about what we now know as Eastern Europe, unless the area was somehow connected with Bach or Silbermann.   I've probably been quite naive, if not a little foolish....I mean, Poland is just a flat place with a bit of ship-building around Gdansk...isn't it?   The fact that the last Pope came from Poland, might reasonably have alerted me to the fact that religion is sort of "live and kicking" there, but I'd assumed that they probably just sang old hymns based on old Polish folk-songs and sprinkled themselves with holy water every day. It's a backward, poor country and the shoes they made were terrible during the communist years; usually falling apart within weeks. Then there were those awful Polski-Fiat autos, which broke down every day or just refused to start, as rust visibly spread as you watched.   Well Poland may be a relatively poor country, and one which has been held back by grinding communism and a lack of development, but when it comes to organs, they have the lot!   Not only is there a very substantial history, with truly world-heritage instruments (and especially organ-cases), the number of organs built during the 19th century was remarkable. Things have obvioulsy been quite eventful too, and one comes across delightful references to the fact that an organ "is now in Sweden, after the invading army stole it!" I don't know whether they had organs melted down for tin or lead (bullets) as they did in Hungary, where only instruments prior to 1850 were spared officially, (a lot somehow survived), but Poland has certainly had more than her fair share of troubles, invasion, warfare and oppression.   It is quite likely (though I have no evidence for saying this) that organ-building in Poland has probably suffered like it did in the Czechoslovak communist regime, with lots of nationalisation, poor quality components and an "iron fist" control from the authorities. Nevertheless, even if I come across this sort of evidence, the fact is, there have been a large number of new organs built in Poland, and still continue to be built because religion is quite a big thing there.   I also find that there are fine performers, fine academies, organ-festivals, real organ composers and instruments which spread across the ages, from the 16th century, through the baroque and romantic and right up to the present day.   Here is a fascinating URL, which gives an insight into the scale of the organ industry in Poland.   http://www.zych.com/   Only established in 1967, and only then building their first new organ in 1975, Zych have since built a large number of instruments; some of them quite monumental. The URL is fascinating, for not only does it contain a very good English version of things, it has many, many photographs and, under the heading of "recorders", many audio mp3's of their work. Most of the other organ-builders do not have web-sites, and in fact, it is quite difficult to "fire up" the links to some of the URL's in Poland; such is the lack of speed on many internet connections.   I now face an enormous problem, for not only am I struggling on with the Hungarian language and organ tradition, and collecting a huge amount of data from the Czech and Slovak regions, I now find a HUGE amount of organ related material from a country with an even MORE obscure language. Working out what the computer generated translations actually MEAN, is a bit like doing the London "Times" crossword; but the "blunder egg" is still a marvel of machine translation which defeats my imagination.   As a visual feast, I reckon that Poland has some of the most fantastic old organ cases on the planet, and I would recommend a bit of time to take a look at them.   More later!   It should be fun trying to discover the history of the huge 110-stop, 5 manual organ at Gdansk, and if that doesn't sound ALL that large, do please keep in mind the fact that in Eastern Europe, a unit organ is virtually unknown, and with BIG churches requiring BIG mixtures, I reckon that at Gdansk, we may be looking at 160+ ranks and about 9,000 pipes.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK                       __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com