PipeChat Digest #5338 - Saturday, May 14, 2005
 
Re: 8' Reger
  by "Desiree'" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Re: 8' Reger
  by "Desiree'" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Re: Why is a fine pipe organ important?
  by "Jerry Richer" <jerry@ChirpingBat.Com>
Night Owls: Practice in RC Churches (was "Eastern Europe")
  by "Stephen Roberts" <sroberts01@snet.net>
Re:Registering  Reger...Thanks to...
  by "Walter Greenwood" <walterg@nauticom.net>
Re: EASTERN EUROPE - POLAND
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Registering Reger
  by <Justinhartz@aol.com>
Breaking Registration rules and what to call pieces.(anyone have this boo
  by "Desiree'" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Re: Registering Reger
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: 8' Reger
  by "Charles & Maria DeVita-Krug" <cdkrug@worldnet.att.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: 8' Reger From: "Desiree'" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 09:21:19 -0700 (PDT)   For Christs Sake...it was simply a mistake that any other being JUST = waking up at 7 AM might make. Im simply a red bleeding human like any others on this list, and would = appreciate respect and treatment like any others. The lack of from time to = time gets nothing but off list emails asking what one may have done = personally to others. As far as how one played a pieces last August, yes, things have = changed.Yes, there has been growth. Im a person who believes in and lives = my life by Process Theology. That is, nothing is the same way it was when = God first introduced it to the world. (Now watch someone take that and get = really nasty or rude with it) I am preparing to study a couple of Reger's pieces this fall. I want to = do some reading and listening prior to learning them so that I may go = towards them. Cordially, TDH     TubaMagna@aol.com wrote: Obvously, 8' Obe was a "dropped letter." It happens to us all. What was also dropped, however, were the answers to some simple questions.   It would help the list to know what Reger works you are learning, Desir'ee, since many people on this list may have studied them, if not = performed them. They may have specific information about the works, either from = study experience, or having discussed the works with a knowledgeable scholar. = They may even have some caveats about corrections, depending upon the edition(s) = you are using. Obviously, you HAVE grown. If you have moved from letting a stranger register for you by piston, to consulting scholarly texts, this is = represents many leaps and bounds. Was there a particular turning point? Monty's questions may "sound" pointed when read on the screen, but when many questions arise at once, especially since Monty has had first-hand experience with your former performance practices and theories, the = interpretation of a post can get a bit muddled.   Sebastian M. Gluck New York City   ****************************************************************** "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe:     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
(back) Subject: Re: 8' Reger From: "Desiree'" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 09:27:36 -0700 (PDT)   (ahem) So that I may go towards them with some awareness of the Organ works of = Reger. There...all should be appeased. Gotta love PickApart...pardon me, PipeChat. I am preparing to study a couple of Reger's pieces this fall. I want to = do some reading and listening prior to learning them so that I may go = towards them. Cordially, TDH     TubaMagna@aol.com wrote: Obvously, 8' Obe was a "dropped letter." It happens to us all. What was also dropped, however, were the answers to some simple questions.   It would help the list to know what Reger works you are learning, Desir'ee, since many people on this list may have studied them, if not = performed them. They may have specific information about the works, either from = study experience, or having discussed the works with a knowledgeable scholar. = They may even have some caveats about corrections, depending upon the edition(s) = you are using. Obviously, you HAVE grown. If you have moved from letting a stranger register for you by piston, to consulting scholarly texts, this is = represents many leaps and bounds. Was there a particular turning point? Monty's questions may "sound" pointed when read on the screen, but when many questions arise at once, especially since Monty has had first-hand experience with your former performance practices and theories, the = interpretation of a post can get a bit muddled.   Sebastian M. Gluck New York City   ****************************************************************** "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe:     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com   --------------------------------- Discover Yahoo! Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing & more. Check it out!
(back) Subject: Re: Why is a fine pipe organ important? From: "Jerry Richer" <jerry@ChirpingBat.Com> Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 12:14:13 -0400   I've seen some good information on some of the organ builders web = sites as to why a pipe organ is important and how to go about funding one. Chirp|Chirp|Chirp: It's the Bat, Chirping Bat .Com    
(back) Subject: Night Owls: Practice in RC Churches (was "Eastern Europe") From: "Stephen Roberts" <sroberts01@snet.net> Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 10:11:46 -0700 (PDT)   Dear List, Ross mentioned that he heard practicing going on in Notre-Dame. I'm not = surprised at all. The atmosphere in Notre-Dame more closely resembles = that of a large train station in a great city (think NYC Grand Central = Station) than it does that of most Catholic churches. The only Catholic = church in the USA that I know that is rather like it is St. Patrick's = Cathedral on Fifth Avenue in NYC. Both are full of tourists milling = around like cattle all of the time. They are both in the very heart of = the city, and both are major tourist attractions. I happen to have some = inside knowledge of the thinking of the clergy at Notre-Dame, and I can = tell you that they depend quite heavily on the money generated by all of = those tourists. The din in Notre-Dame is really quite amazing at times. = If an organist is practicing loudly, then all the tourists raise their = voices when chatting with their fellows. The clergy at Notre-Dame long = ago gave up on the idea of silence in the nave, so it doesn't matter whether an organist practices or not. The only place I remember = where there was quiet whenever I have visited ND was a side chapel in = which the Blessed Sacrament was exposed and Adoration was going on. It isn't like that at St-Sulpice. I played a recital there in 2003, and I = can tell you that organists are only allowed to play at night. If I'm not = mistaken, no organist can ever practice at any time in Sacre-Coeur de = Montmartre, since there is Perpetual Adoration 24 hours a day. Daniel = Roth told me that the clergy in most of the big Parisian churches won't = allow organists to practice when the church is open for prayer. He was my = source for that information, and I believe that he is in a rather good = position to know. I also believe that it's always been like that; as a = result organ practice time in Paris is really difficult to come by. That's = why the most famous Parisian organists have always had house organs. I've = played in a couple of RC Cathedrals in Germany, and I was only allowed to = practice after the church closed. The same is true of Stephansdom in = Vienna, where I have played twice. When I was in college eons ago, I = accompanied our university choir on a tour to Italy; we were only allowed to practice at night in St. Mark's in Venice and = some other big Italian churches. The same was also true of the Basilica = of the Most Blessed Sacrament in Buenos Aires, where my students and I = gave a recital in January 2004. I'm playing at the Basilica of Our Lady = of Guadalupe in Mexico City in July, and I have been told that I can only = practice after the Basilica has closed for pilgrims. In my own = experience, Notre-Dame de Paris, the church Ross cited, is the exception = rather than the rule. Most of the great RC cathedrals don't allow = organists to practice, at least not the ones where I have played. Stephen Roberts Western CT State University, Danbury, CT USA  
(back) Subject: Re:Registering Reger...Thanks to... From: "Walter Greenwood" <walterg@nauticom.net> Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 13:15:10 -0400   Monty,   With respect, if a performer thinks a particular registration sounds better on a particular instrument at a particular place and time, that's all the reason a performer needs. We need more free thinking in this stodgy old business of ours, not less. I know nothing about Desiree except what I read here, but if she wants to start her free thinking process with what we know of traditional practice, it seems to me that she is in the right frame of mind. Of course she is going to do what she wants anyway. If you are not doing what you want anyway, you should give it a try. Bruhns, Buxtehude, and Bach all did it. It does wonders for one's mood.   -WG   >From: <RMB10@aol.com> >... > >2. Given your past history of registrational free thinking, what does it =   >matter how one would register Reger? You're going to do what you want = anyway. >When you came to my church for the Church Music Summit and played Pierne' = you >clearly ignored the registrational markings as MARKED by the composer. = You >told me how you played the Pierne' in one of your recitals and how you = played it, >also, ignoring the registrational markings, Desi-ing it up because you >thought it sounded better, but you couldn't give me any good reason for = your doing >so. If you ignore composer's markings for whom we have first hand = accounts of >what they did, why are you concerned with the works of Reger and how the >German Romantics registered? >... > >Monty Bennett >      
(back) Subject: Re: EASTERN EUROPE - POLAND From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 11:05:30 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   I wonder how complete Paul's knowledge is?   I confess that I am learning and writing on the hoof concerning organs in Poland, but it seems to me, even at this early stage, that the numbers are stacking up more than I expected.   There are many historic organs in Poland, in varying degrees of originality, and many being subject to the "attention" of later organ-builders. Some also seem to be in a bad state of repair; often with pneumatic action, which appears to have remained popular well into the 1980's.   However, it is the numnber of new instruments recently built, or being built which fascinates me. The biggest organ-builder appears to the Zyche company, and since 1975, they have been involved with 60 organs, of which only 9 are re-builds; the rest being entirely new instruments. Some of them are large instruments.   Certainly, in the listings I have thus far stumbled across, the villages seem to have only a small one or two manual instrument (often very historic ones) which often seem to be old and neglected. In the larger towns and cities, there are many instruments. Paul mentions Gdansk, and I have already mentioned that there are 60 listed organs in Krakow alone.   However, I am making new discoveries all the time, and also finding a number of present-day organ-builders completely unknown to me previously, who seem to actually be building substantial new organs. This is quite exciting stuff, but as yet, I cannot "draw it together" into anything co-herent.   There are also many composers and organists of whom I have been unaware, in addition to organ festivals etc.   I suspect that there are numerous problems associated with any internet search of the former Eastern-bloc countries. They are behind in such things as computing, but catching up slowly. Some of the connections are painful. Businesses also seem to lack the advertising "presence" of Western companies, and are only slowly coming to terms with free-market forces.   Now that the old communist countries have opened up, a whole generation of people such as myself, are discovering for the first time that there is life behind the old "iron curtain". Every day I mix with people from all over the world, and many of them are from these old Eastern-bloc regions. They are often educated and interesting people, and the same appears to go for an organ-culture previously beyond reach.   Oddly enough, I haven't found a single reference as yet to any organ in a concert hall, but as I've seen a couple of photographs of them, they must exist in Poland.   I suspect that the whole country has been terribly parochial, and even within Poland, the musical details and culture may well be badly documented or lack the interchange which we all so enjoy, in such an amicable way here on Pipechat.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK     --- Paul Valtos <chercapa@enter.net> wrote:     > I was in Cracow Poland (Southern Poland) in 97. > The small village > churches lack organs of any significance.   > As > far as I know (not going > into Major Poland (as Northern Poland is called) > most of the organs of any > importance there are in the areas of Selesia, the > port of Gdansk (Danzig > before WWII) and the northern corridor of East > Prussia.       Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html    
(back) Subject: Re: Registering Reger From: <Justinhartz@aol.com> Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 14:07:26 EDT   Regarding Reger's organ works:   Allow me to quote Gerre Hancock (who is a fabulous interpreter of Reger) = from my Juilliard days --   "Did you know that Max Reger wrote his organ works before the invention of =   the pencil eraser?" :)   Uncle Gerre, please feel free to correct me if I didn't get the quote = right word for word :)   Cheers,   Justin  
(back) Subject: Breaking Registration rules and what to call pieces.(anyone have this book?) From: "Desiree'" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 11:33:12 -0700 (PDT)   Walter Greenwood offereed a quite cordial posting on regesteration. Im sure that many of us can recall hearing a concert or recital where the = performer followed the rules a little too strictly. At that particular = time, last August, and prior to, I had one way of registering the piece in = discussion. After that, I decided to use the "jeux d'indication". It was = with a local cathedral organist that the piece was actually brought to = life in a coaching session where he influenced "seamless changes". He had = me adding stops throughout the piece. And, lo, at the last chord, he = pulled out..the reed 32'. I wonder if others on the list have memories of teachers telling them what = stops would not be employed while playing Bach upon a tracker.Did your = teachers ever tell you never to employ flutes or other foundaions in the = Principal plenum? OR...did teachers tell you never to add stops that have = no significant contributioin to the ensemble? This is a practice I follow = now and always will. Even my local teacher is always complementary of me = "not muddying the plenum" with other foundations. Maybe a larger scaled = 8' Gemshorn, but never flutes, unless it is a French Romantic piece = indicationg Fonds de 8 Pied. In relation to the above, I recall talking to an organist once that was = preparing for a large installation in theirchurch. I looked at the = stoplist for the organ, and asked why there was a 32' string. Of course, I = knew they would say it might add to the more gentle 32' tone. And yes, = thats correct. However, I mentioned that upon the organ I learned on in = Washington, we bery seldom employed the 32' reed with the 32' flue. This = was because it drained the wind source, taking away from the rest of the = instrument. There was a succession of comments to follow. Among those was a comment = about an old Clair Coci trick, to where one simply reaches over and pulls = a stop. I asked "what if it does not contribute to the ensemble?" The = reply was along the lines of: its not what they feel...its what the people = see. So, if they see you adding stops, they will gasp and go "oh my!" . So = this performer is certainly one who does not adhere to the registration = indications in a piece, no? Was'nt Virgil one that would set stops he was not using just for visual? As for calling a piece, such as the Pierne', by a name other than = indicated by the composer, I would question yesteryears publishers as = well. The Pierne' is in a very old book, titles "Vignt Piece..." that = includes two lesser known marches, the Boellmann Offertoire sur un Noel, = the Franck E Major Pastorale,a nd other pieces. This compiler/editor = entitles the piece "Prelude-Toccata". Why did the publisher allow this? = Its that ok to do that? What are opinions? Cordially TDH   --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour
(back) Subject: Re: Registering Reger From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 11:36:17 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   Gerre Hancock is indeed a fabulous INTERPRETER of Reger. I would add that, by definition, Gerre Hancock is therefore a fabulous TRANSCRIBER of Reger's music, because the organs on which he has recorded Reger in America automatically change the nature of the works.....eraser pencil or not!   Of course, Gerre Hancock's staement is a double-edged sword (eraser?) which can be understood in several ways.   It was a fantastic privilege to be a young teenager listening to Fernando Germani playing Reger; one of the finest of all Reger interpreters. It was because of Germani that I grew to love many (not all) of Reger's organ-works.   Believe me when I state that getting the notes right in Reger is only the start.   Then comes the sonic "intentions" of the composer; something which invites wide debate and very different ways of achieving the thoughtful intention.   Once that is out of the way, we have to look at the speed indications. THEY are a thesis in their own rights, because Reger is not to be taken literally. It seems likely that he was simply encouraging organists of the day to play quicker. Apparently, the German organists of the day played EVERYTHING at a snail's pace.   Oddly enough, I go to Holland to hear Reger rather than Bach, (brilliant though the Bach playing is), and I learn something new everytime.   As a final thought, what other composer other than Bach himself, can have the music played in so many different ways, and yet still remain a wonderful musical experience?   Like Bach's great works, the genius of Reger seems to shine through in spite of the performer or the organ on which it is being performed.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK       --- Justinhartz@aol.com wrote: > Regarding Reger's organ works: > > Allow me to quote Gerre Hancock > "Did you know that Max Reger wrote his organ works > before the invention of > the pencil eraser?" :) >     Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html    
(back) Subject: Re: 8' Reger From: "Charles & Maria DeVita-Krug" <cdkrug@worldnet.att.net> Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 14:53:56 -0400   On Sat, May 14, 2005 at 09:21:19AM -0700, Desiree' wrote: > > Im simply a red bleeding human like any others on this list,   what? I'm the only one here who bleeds green? :)   Yes, I DO think this thread needed a bit of levity.