PipeChat Digest #5350 - Wednesday, May 18, 2005
 
Re: Organist/Choirmasters
  by "Blair Anderson" <bda@shaw.ca>
Organ Components for Sale
  by "Weston Harris" <weston@1stnetusa.com>
Re: 16' in middle movts. (was Registering Trio Sonatas)
  by "Thomas Dressler" <rgtd@ptdprolog.net>
Re: untitled composition question
  by <ProOrgo53@aol.com>
Another oops
  by "Thomas Dressler" <rgtd@ptdprolog.net>
Re: Organist/choirmasters (longish)
  by <SWF12262@aol.com>
Re: congratulations
  by "Alicia Zeilenga" <azeilenga@theatreorgans.com>
Re: congratulations
  by "Scott A Montgomery" <montre1978@yahoo.com>
RE: "Broken glass" at Liverpool
  by <SWF12262@aol.com>
Re: Adoro devote
  by <Justinhartz@aol.com>
Organist/Choirmaster discussion
  by "terry hicks" <Terrick@webtv.net>
Re: untitled composition question
  by "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis.jan@gmail.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Organist/Choirmasters From: "Blair Anderson" <bda@shaw.ca> Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 21:46:34 -0500   On 5/17/05 5:53 PM, "Desiree'" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> wrote:   > I think Maurits has said it all in just the right manner! > Cheers' > TDH >   Gentle ListFolk:   With the greatest of respect, I have experienced both O/CM as one person = and as separate people. My preference? Without a doubt, a single person.   I have had the opportunity to act as an organist with an excellent choir director as well as a choir director with an excellent accompanist. Currently, I am in an interim position as an Organist/Choirmaster. I far prefer to be OCM. Why? Control - not in an egocentric or meglomaniacal nature, but as in the control of the final product.   Just as you train the choir to sing well, observe tempos, dynamics, and = read the music, you train the choir to be somewhat self-supporting in the direction department. I was taught to listen for direction just as much, perhaps more, than actually watching for direction. As a choirmaster, I don't point out to the choir what to listen for empirically, but rather allow them to listen and learn what I mean with certain "cues" on the = organ.   Just as the concept is hard to train, it is even harder to describe. For example, if you want the tempo to increase a slight amount, you move = quickly to playing the accompaniment more marcato and slightly faster. You also = play the pedals in a similar fashion. A well-trained, aware choir will pick up the clue immediately and adjust the tempo. If you want a dynamic change, = you play softer ahead of the spot and the choir will follow. In performance, a well-trained, aware choir will remember and adjust.   My choirs are used to watching from the corner of their eyes for direct hand- and finger-work, but it occurs only when they are singing acappella = or at the final chord. Occasionally, you can accompany with one hand and conduct with the other.   When I was singing rather than conducting or accompanying, I far preferred to be singing under someone who gave clues and cues as often with his playing than with his hands or fingers.   The bottom line is that there isn't one right or wrong way. It's really whatever works. Some of the finest choirs in the world follow a conductor. Some also have been under the direction of an organist/choirmaster. It really is the synergy and sympatico between the choir and the conductor = that is most important and the final product is paramount.   CHEERS! Blair...   Organist and Choirmaster pro tem The Cathedral Church of St. John (Anglican) Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada -- "Small deeds done are better than great deeds planned."      
(back) Subject: Organ Components for Sale From: "Weston Harris" <weston@1stnetusa.com> Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 20:02:15 -0700   A few organ parts available in Los Angeles:   1) Laukhuff Ventus 1.5 hsp blower, brand new in original shipping crate =   2) Rodgers pedalboard, Walnut, barely used and traded out for an Oak = one, in original Rodgers box 3) Artisan operating system boards (1997 version)   Contact:   Weston Harris weston@1stnetusa.com      
(back) Subject: Re: 16' in middle movts. (was Registering Trio Sonatas) From: "Thomas Dressler" <rgtd@ptdprolog.net> Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 23:03:26 -0400   > I'm sure in practice we are much closer in intention and result than you > might think, but I will repeat my plea to organists to listen to what = they > are doing and not rely on an "inner ear" that does not necessarily = relate > to > what the organ is actually producing. >   Yes, it seems we are closer in intention than I thought. I do agree that = you have to listen and adjust. Even coming from my most "doctrinaire" place, which would be my ideal trio sonata registration (rh: Choir 8' Principal = or 8' Gedackt and 8' string, lh: Great 4' Octave played an octave lower, ped: =   16' and 8' Octave), it sometimes doesn't work even on an organ that has = this particular disposition. The first thing I would do is try it, but there = are times when I can't use it because one or the other stop is scaled too = heavy or whatever. If it's not possible to get a usable Principal 8 for the = right hand, then I might try flutes 8 and 4 (4 in the rh is ok because it does = not confuse voice leading.) Or if the flutes are particularly nice, I might = try the same trick with flutes, having both hands play at 8' pitch and use an = 8' flute in the pedal. If the organ has a particularly beautiful and gentle reed stop, like maybe a GENTLE regal, then I'll use that along with an 8' pitch Principal for some middle movements (especially the C minor sonata.)   But the main thing here is that while there is lots of room for = creativity, I still avoid putting the wrong pitches in the wrong hand, and at this point, I avoid playing them at all if I can't get a good pedal 16'. And = the truth is that I have found that the problem with 16's often has more to do =   with pedal technique than voicing, although I do find there are 16's that just won't work for this. You really need the control of toe technique and =   foot crossing rather than toe-heel technique to get the precision in articulation and speech necessary.   I have spent lots of time playing 19th century American tracker organs = which were absolutely wonderful instruments, and I play on an 1892 Hook and Hastings right now in one of my church jobs. They don't even come close to =   having the right disposition for French Classical music, but I have to = admit that sometimes I will adapt a piece for "Open Diapason en Taille" or = "Recit d'Open Diapason" if I feel it sort of-kind of works. I don't do it often, but once in awhile I do. I find Bach trios to be the most persnickety of = all pieces to register because of the voice crossing and voice leading issues. =   The point being that I would rather hear a lovely "Diapason en Taille" = than an edgy, annoying electronic Cromhorne en Taille. So yes, I think we're on =   the same wavelength, however I am fully aware of how to register French pieces (well, haha, as fully aware as one could try to be without being Couperin) and make the compromises consciously.   I did play on an awful old *A* when I was in graduate school. Ha, if I = told you some of the things I used to do on there! (Program the same mixture 4 times on the alterable stops and put them all on together. . .all kind of unorthodox things. . . my favorite used to be to play the Chiff stop by itself to imitate water drops. I think that MUST have been Messiaen's REAL =   intention for Le Banquet Celeste! Come now, if Messiaen had had an *A* = with chiff stop, we KNOW he would have used it for those drops!!!!! LOL)   Thomas Dressler   http://www.thomasdressler.com    
(back) Subject: Re: untitled composition question From: <ProOrgo53@aol.com> Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 23:09:58 EDT   In a message dated 5/17/2005 6:27:04 P.M. Central Standard Time, blueeyedbear@aol.com writes:   it's untitled and has no tempo marking. what suggestions do you have for = printing it in the sunday bulletin?     If it's the "only" piece you have prepared to play - or if you just = really LIKE the music and WANT to present it, you can *approximate* a title by = making a judgement about its (best) tempo, i.e., "Adagio in E-flat Major" - - - = - - - - - - - - - - - - ROSS EDWARD MINOR  
(back) Subject: Another oops From: "Thomas Dressler" <rgtd@ptdprolog.net> Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 23:11:37 -0400   You know, I hit the send button too fast and then have to correct. . .Here =   it is:     > my ideal trio sonata registration (rh: Choir 8' Principal or 8' Gedackt > and 8' string, lh: Great 4' Octave played an octave lower, ped: 16' and = 8' > Octave)   That is, a 16' Bourdon in the Pedal with the 8' Octave   > Or if the flutes are particularly nice, I might try the same trick with > flutes, having both hands play at 8' pitch and use an 8' flute in the > pedal.   But not by itself. Still including the 16' Bourdon.     Thomas Dressler   http://www.thomasdressler.com    
(back) Subject: Re: Organist/choirmasters (longish) From: <SWF12262@aol.com> Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 00:06:29 EDT   Dear Charles, I've been in the position of directing and accompanying since 1988 at St. =   Lambert. In my opinion, the best you can do to improve the choir is to = prepare them well enough that they need a minimum of direction. If you can get beyond "micro-managing" in conducting (this was a huge challenge for me!) = and trust them to take care of the details after proper preparation, you can concentrate on the big picture -- just giving important cues and perhaps = downbeat of each measure. I've reached a point where I can enjoy a great deal of "economy of motion" because I've come to a point where I feel I can trust = my choir. We woodshed the details in rehearsal, then we can just let the music happen. To some extent serving as conductor and accompanist is desirable = -- this eliminates one source of possible musical conflict regarding differing interpretations of tempo, dynamics, articulation, etc. Although I do = argue with myself from time to time -- no I don't -- yes you do!! Prepare your = singers as well as you can, then take the leap of faith and trust them. Repeat as necessary. I'll bet they'll come through for you, and improve as = musicians in the process! Best wishes, Steve (director) and Steve (accompanist) [Sybil sends her best regards;)] Steven Weyand Folkers Director of Music St. Lambert RC Church Skokie, IL    
(back) Subject: Re: congratulations From: "Alicia Zeilenga" <azeilenga@theatreorgans.com> Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 23:09:12 -0500   Yes, congrats, Scott. Marvelous job.   Just for everyone else's sake, Scott played:   Dialogue, Louis Marchand   Chorale in b, Cesar Franck   Prelude & Fugue in C, BWV 547, Bach   L'Ascension, Olivier Messiaen   Prelude & Fugue in g, Marcel Dupre     Alicia Zeilenga "Santa Caecilia, ora pro nobis"     -----Original Message----- From: Bernadette Wagner <musicalgrl90@yahoo.com> To: pipechat@pipechat.org Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 09:55:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: congratulations   > I would like to send out a message of congratulations to list member > Scott Montgomery, who graduated Sunday from the University of Illinois > @ Urbana-Champaign with a Bachelor's degree in Music. He also played a > very good recital last night. Yay Scott!!! > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Mail > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour      
(back) Subject: Re: congratulations From: "Scott A Montgomery" <montre1978@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 21:15:01 -0700 (PDT)   Thank you all for you comments!     Alicia Zeilenga <azeilenga@theatreorgans.com> wrote: Yes, congrats, Scott. Marvelous job.   Just for everyone else's sake, Scott played:   Dialogue, Louis Marchand   Chorale in b, Cesar Franck   Prelude & Fugue in C, BWV 547, Bach   L'Ascension, Olivier Messiaen   Prelude & Fugue in g, Marcel Dupre     Alicia Zeilenga "Santa Caecilia, ora pro nobis"     -----Original Message----- From: Bernadette Wagner To: pipechat@pipechat.org Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 09:55:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: congratulations   > I would like to send out a message of congratulations to list member > Scott Montgomery, who graduated Sunday from the University of Illinois > @ Urbana-Champaign with a Bachelor's degree in Music. He also played a > very good recital last night. Yay Scott!!! > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Mail > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour       ****************************************************************** "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe:       Scott Montgomery 619 W Church St Champaign, IL 61820 217-390-0158 www.ScottMontgomeryMusic.net  
(back) Subject: RE: "Broken glass" at Liverpool From: <SWF12262@aol.com> Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 00:38:37 EDT   If you are interested in modernist stained glass, I would recommend to you = the huge window at Alice Millar Chapel on the campus of Northwestern = University in Evanston, IL, USA. This is, if I recall correctly, the largest = stained glass window east of the Mississippi. Darned if I know what it = represents, though! Steve Steven Weyand Folkers Director of Music St. Lambert RC Church Skokie, IL    
(back) Subject: Re: Adoro devote From: <Justinhartz@aol.com> Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 00:44:49 EDT   Dear Glenda and Chatters. I recall playing a David Johnson composition on Adoro devote in a collection from (if I remember correctly) Augsburg. It is improvisatory in = style. Alexander Guilmant also composed several versets on this tune. This is a wonderful chant to improvise on. If you don't improvise, = this is a great tune to start with.     Justin  
(back) Subject: Organist/Choirmaster discussion From: "terry hicks" <Terrick@webtv.net> Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 22:16:27 -0700   As a person who is admittedly a "control" personality, I'd rather conduct the choir AND play the organ. However, there are times I've wished for a good accompanist because it would be less work for me! Yes, you have to multi-task and almost memorize, but so does an orchestral conductor.   In a concert situation, I'd certainly use an accompanist for certain things. I've also had the experience of working with the usual amateur choirs on difficult music, and it really comes down to teaching the music thoroughly. It even makes for a better choir if the singers know they are not going to be "spoon-fed" but have to develop some abilities :)   Regarding "a capella" music, let's not forget that most of the repertoire saddled with that title was in fact accompanied by organ or instruments.    
(back) Subject: Re: untitled composition question From: "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis.jan@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 22:53:40 -0700   Not that it makes a darn bit of difference to this topic, but one of my favorite short prelude/offertory/postlude pieces is "Church Music" by J. S. Zamecnik. It's from a collection of silent movie music. Half the fun is putting the title in the bulletin. :-)   Back to topic, I'd go with Tim Bovard's suggested "Untitled"=20   On 5/17/05, ProOrgo53@aol.com <ProOrgo53@aol.com> wrote: >=20 > In a message dated 5/17/2005 6:27:04 P.M. Central Standard Time, > blueeyedbear@aol.com writes: > it's untitled and has no tempo marking. what suggestions do you have for > printing it in the sunday bulletin? > If it's the "only" piece you have prepared to play - or if you just reall= y > LIKE the music and WANT to present it, you can *approximate* a title by > making a judgement about its (best) tempo, i.e., "Adagio in E-flat Major"= - > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ROSS EDWARD MINOR > =20 > =20     --=20 Jan Nijhuis nijhuis.jan@gmail.com