PipeChat Digest #5356 - Thursday, May 19, 2005 Re: Rollschweller and cone valve chests. - the response by "Colin Mitchell" <email@example.com> Me by "Colin Mitchell" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Music news by "Mark Turnbull" <email@example.com> Re: Organist/choirmasters (longish) by <DarrylbytheSea@aol.com> Re: Rollschweller and cone valve chests. - the response by "Jim McFarland" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: Colin by "N. Russotto" <email@example.com> Re: Sauer Organ history (In English) by "Colin Mitchell" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: Rollschweller and cone valve chests. - the response by "Nathan Smith" <email@example.com> organist/choirmasters by "Merry Foxworth" <firstname.lastname@example.org> ALL READ Re: Colin by "Tim Bovard" <email@example.com> Toe-stud general pistons (x posted) by "Robert Lind" <firstname.lastname@example.org> RE: Organist/choirmasters (short) by "Randy Terry" <email@example.com> Les Maitres by "Jonathan Orwig" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: Rollschweller and cone valve chests. - the response by "Andy Lawrence" <email@example.com> Gmail... a new kind of email. by "Andy Lawrence" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: Editing Postings - PLEASE READ! by "Noel Stoutenburg" <email@example.com>
(back) Subject: Re: Rollschweller and cone valve chests. - the response From: "Colin Mitchell" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 02:33:51 -0700 (PDT) Hello, I guess we all learn as we play! Someone has pointed out that the Skinner at Yale (as with others) uses Pitman chests. Another has pointed out that a General Crescendo adds one stop at a time. Someone else suggested that a general crescendo adds registers in pre-packed, bite-size lumps! I have replied to the effect that a rollschweller is smoother in operation, and yet another pointed out that a rollschweller works through some sort of gear-mechanism. I'm now possibly more confused now than when I started the thread, BUT THERE IS A DIFFERENCE between a crescendo heard on an English or American organ, and something like a big Walcker. Perhaps, in the final analysis, it comes down to the scaling and voicing differences, and the more subtle blend of registers on German instruments of the Reger period......you know....like porridge being brought to the boil In fact, having heard "the real McCoy" at Doesburg, I was left wondering why Reger ever bothered to learn counterpoint, let alone teach it! IMHO, the music of Reger sounds FAR better on a neo-classical instrument.....how controversial is THAT? I expect I'll soon be saying that Virgil Fox was the ultimate Bach interpretor. I must be getting old! Regards, Colin Mitchell UK --- Andy Lawrence <email@example.com> wrote: > I guess my ignorance has been brought to light once > again. Ventils at > Yale? I thought this was a Skinner? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
(back) Subject: Me From: "Colin Mitchell" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 02:44:04 -0700 (PDT) Hello, Well it's nice to be adored, respected, rejected and then re-born, but I feel that Jesus deserves it more than I. I am NOT offended, I am NOT hurt and I DO NOT NEED an angry brigade waving sticks in my support. I can fight my own battles thank-you.....and if the pimple-faced, pubescent little........ (oops!) Nick is but 15, and if the worst thing he does is poke fun at me rather than take drugs or batter old-ladies, I can live with that. Regards, Colin Mitchell UK --- Garrison W Johnson <email@example.com> wrote: > NFR > > If you please! There are some of us who revere the > name of Christ! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
(back) Subject: Music news From: "Mark Turnbull" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 11:11:34 +0100 Hi friends. Thought some of you may be interested in this=20 Just finished its run through the english courts Mark turnbull Middlesbrough England HYPERION RECORDS FAILS AT APPEAL Hyperion Records is very sorry to announce that it has lost its defence of the copyright case brought against it by Dr Lionel Sawkins. Dr Sawkins claimed musical copyright in four editions of the musical works of Lalande. He lost at first instance in relation to the recording of one of the pieces of music but won on the other three. Hyperion appealed with the leave of the trial judge. Hyperion's principal objection to the claim made by Dr Sawkins was its contention that a performing edition does not amount to a new and substantive musical work in its own right unless the performing edition is original, in the sense that it amounts to a new musical work. Thus, Hyperion contended that if an edition is an arrangement or interpretation of an existing musical work then it may obtain copyright as an original musical work. Dr Sawkins expressly made clear that he was not contending that his editions were arrangements of Lalande's music. Instead, Dr Sawkins made it clear that his intention was to faithfully produce the music of Lalande in a modern performing edition. Hyperion argued that an edition of Lalande's music that is a faithful reproduction of Lalande's music cannot itself be an original musical work. Hyperion contended that Dr Sawkins had produced a modern performing edition and that the skill and labour that he had exerted in doing so gave him a literary copyright in the text. It did not give Dr Sawkins a musical copyright, as the sound was Lalande's. In the lead judgment of the Court of Appeal, Lord Justice Mummery held that: In my judgment, on the application of Walter -v- Lane to this case, the effort, skill and time which the judge found Dr Sawkins spent in making the 3 performing editions were sufficient to satisfy the requirement that they should be "original" works in the copyright sense. This is so even though a) Dr Sawkins worked on the scores of existing musical works composed by another person (Lalande); b) Lalande's works are out of copyright; and c) Dr Sawkins had no intention of adding any new notes of music of his own (Para 36) Lord Justice Mummery decided that "A work need only be 'original' in the limited sense that the author originated it by his efforts rather than slavishly copying it from the work produced by the efforts of another person" (Para 31). In relying on the decision in Walter -v- Lane, the Court of Appeal rejected Hyperion's reliance on the House of Lords authority of Interlego -v- Tyco.=20 This case (which concerned a claim to copyright in a new technical drawing for the lego brick) made it clear that even though a lot of skill was required to copy the original technical drawing, that did not mean that the new drawing was original. By analogy, Hyperion contended that even though Dr Sawkins had exercised a lot of skill in copying the music of Lalande into the modern form (a textual process) that did not mean the resultant edition was an original musical work. Jacob J recognised the dichotomy between Walter -v- Lane and Interlego in his judgment. His judgment recorded as follows: I begin by recording the following cross examination of Dr Sawkins (in relation to one of the editions): Q: Can I just be clear this is not one of the pieces that you actually claimed to have recomposed anything - there is no new music in Venite? A: No, there is no new music. There are corrections to the musical text, which you could argue are the same thing, but they are individual notes. It is that answer - no new music - which lies at the heart of Hyperion's objection... It was that answer which also caused me to pause. He then held that Interlego could be resolved in the Court assessing the "extent to which the 'copyist' is a mere copyist - merely performing an easy mechanical function. The more that is so, the less is his contribution likely to be seen as 'original'". If this is how the law interprets copyright and 'originality', then Hyperion must accept that the Sawkins editions are in copyright. The judgment means that almost every edition of an out of copyright work will in fact have its own musical copyright because the law will regard it as 'original'. This will affect classical record companies and performers of classical music as they will have to seek (and pay for) a licence before performing or recording music from an edition. The judgment also means that the threshold for copyright and 'originality' is extremely low. Given that copyright subsists in every fixation of a musical work, this will mean that each time a musical work is recorded, that particular performance could be of an "original" musical work under UK copyright law. This gives rise to the possibility of performers claiming musical copyright in addition to performing rights - something the legislators surely did not intend. The financial consequences for Hyperion are yet to be determined, but will be severe. Although the damages recovery for Dr Sawkins is likely to be very low indeed, the legal costs are likely to be very large. Dr Sawkins instructed the law firm Carter Ruck on a conditional fee agreement and they are likely to seek a success fee from Hyperion. This could be as much as double the real legal costs and take the exposure to Dr Sawkins lawyers to hundreds of thousands of pounds if not a million. This leaves Hyperion in a very precarious position. The company is small and operates independently of any financial support and survives solely on the sales of classical recordings in an extremely competitive marketplace flooded by cheap product. It is certain that the future returns from sales alone is not enough to cover its legal settlements and continue its mammoth recording schedule. Hyperion now is forced to reconsider its general recorded output and will be reducing dramatically its commitment to many new recordings over the next year or two to concentrate on fund-raising activities to help with the legal costs and to keep a limited number of new recordings in its diary. The collateral damage caused by this decision not only will affect the prosperity of the company but also the dozens of artists and groups, producers, engineers, composers, music publishers and musical editors but most importantly the record buying public whose access to rare and collectable repertoire served by Hyperion, and perhaps many of the other record labels, will be severely diminished. http://www.bbc.co.uk/ This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system.=20 Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received.=20 Further communication will signify your consent to this.
(back) Subject: Re: Organist/choirmasters (longish) From: <DarrylbytheSea@aol.com> Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 06:15:40 EDT Good morning, y'all, =20 I'm once again in an o/d position. After many years of "just playing" and =20 following arm-wavers, I'm back where I began=E2=80=94playing the organ and c= onducting =20 and amateur choir. If I had my choice I always would play the organ for the=20= =20 service and accompany the choir so the choir accompaniments are well-played.= =20 Sometimes, if the anthem has an especially tough accompaniment, I'll ask one= of =20 the children's choir directos to arm wave, so I don't have to worry about th= e=20 choir, but almost never do I relinquish the organ accompaniment to another= .. =20 Whatever . . . it's been a good and ciivil discussion. Thanks. =20 Yours, =20 Darryl by the Sea Nashville, TN
(back) Subject: Re: Rollschweller and cone valve chests. - the response From: "Jim McFarland" <email@example.com> Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 06:26:05 -0400 On Thu, 19 May 2005 02:33:51 -0700 (PDT) Colin Mitchell <firstname.lastname@example.org> writes: > > Another has pointed out that a General Crescendo adds > one stop at a time. Someone else suggested that a > general crescendo adds registers in pre-packed, > bite-size lumps! Many of the solid state crescendi have 20 or 30 stages,. When programming, it is necessary to lump stops on large organs. Not very good. Large organs with one-stop-at-a-time devices are frequently difficult to control precisely, unless the possibility exists within the dynamic range of the instrument to have no "sudden" loud stop. > I have replied to the effect that a Rollschweller is > smoother in operation, and yet another pointed out > that a Rollschweller works through some sort of > gear-mechanism. Rollschweller mechanisms use a gear train between the drum and the contact system. Jim
(back) Subject: Re: Colin From: "N. Russotto" <email@example.com> Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 06:01:17 -0500 Sorry, Garrison. . . THAT deserves an apology. . . so sorry about that. Had a bit of a temper flare there NFR On 5/18/05, Garrison W Johnson <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote: > NFR >=20 > If you please! There are some of us who revere the name of Christ! Plea= se > do not mis-use it. > -----Original Message----- > From: email@example.com [mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org]On Behalf Of = N. > Russotto > Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 8:17 PM > To: PipeChat > Subject: Re: Colin >=20 >=20 > OH COME ON Alan, don't you have a sense of humor somewhere? IT WAS A > JOKE!!!! WIth an IQ of 134, I'm not often called 'stupid', and bad > mannered? > Well, Jesus bloody Christ. Some people are just so stodgy and inane. Come > on, now, Alan, don't be asinine. Colin got the joke, and if he asks me to > apologize, I will. If a moderator insists that I stop making jokes, I > will. > However, until then, I see no reason why you must blanket me as an idiot = in > such a way, especially because SOME people *cough* you *cough* insist on > mongering rumors that could be devastating to the Ally Pally. I would loo= k > forward to you and your little "unofficial" site being taken off-line. Th= ey > are damaging to us all, and a crock of crap, if I may add. >=20 > NFR >=20 >=20 > On 5/18/05, alantaylor1 <email@example.com> wrote: > Is there anyone else as bad mannered or quite as stupid as NFR on thi= s > list? There are quite a number of members of this list,NFR, that find mu= ch > of interest in Colin's postings. What a pity that you don't appear to hav= e > just a little of interest to say. Perhaps silence might prove your best > bet, > until you can think of something interesting to post. >=20 >=20 >=20 > More, much more please Colin. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Alan >=20 > London >=20 >=20 >=20 > You know, Colin, I think that's the shortest email I have ever seen y= ou > write! Congratulations on learning the value of words. I figured you for = a > 'barrister' as you use three words where one is required. > :) >=20 >=20 > NFR >=20 >=20 >=20 > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 266.11.12 - Release Date: 17/05/20= 05 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > -- > Nicholas F. Russotto > Somers, Connecticut > Organist, Holy Cross PNCC > Enfield, Connecticut > Moderator/Owner: Monarch of Music > http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/monarch_of_music/ >=20 >=20 --=20 Nicholas F. Russotto Somers, Connecticut Organist, Holy Cross PNCC Enfield, Connecticut Moderator/Owner: Monarch of Music=20 http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/monarch_of_music/
(back) Subject: Re: Sauer Organ history (In English) From: "Colin Mitchell" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 04:49:46 -0700 (PDT) Hello, I've just stumbled into an interesting URL which details the history of Sauer, and specifically mentions the electric action of the Breslau "monster" organ. It's quite an interesting history. http://www.sauerorgelbau.de/history.htm Regards, Colin Mitchell UK __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
(back) Subject: Re: Rollschweller and cone valve chests. - the response From: "Nathan Smith" <email@example.com> Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 08:27:30 -0400 Hello List, The Newberry does not have any manual Hutchings chests anymore. It is worth stating that the Hutchings chests it had were pitman chests, of the early design by Mr. Skinner when he worked for Hutchings. There are still quite a few Hutchings pedal chests in the organ, and the facade pipe chests are Hutchings as well. The manual chests are mainly 1915 Steere, with some Skinner chests added to accommodate the enlargements. Not counting bass chests, the manual chests are as follows: Great - Steere: 2 Main Chests, Old Mixture Chest Skinner: New Mixture Chest, Tromba Chest Swell - Steere: 2 Lower Main Chests Skinner: Upper Chest, Vox Humana Chest Solo: Steere: 2 Lower Main Chests Skinner: Upper Chest Orchestral: Steere: Upper and Lower Main Chests, both duplexed action String: Skinner: 2 Main Chests Echo Steere: 1 Main Chest, duplexed action All of the manual chests in the organ are of pitman design, and the Steere Chests remarkably resemble the Skinner ones. This could be because Harry Van Wart, who was the shop foreman for Hutchings (I think), later went to Steere. Of course, Steere was later absorbed by Skinner as well. It is also worth noting that at the time of each rebuild of the organ, the previous builder was already out of business and unavailable to enlarge the instrument. Best, - Nate
(back) Subject: organist/choirmasters From: "Merry Foxworth" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 08:38:57 -0400 When one person is both organist and choirmaster, that person can pick = music he or she is comfortable playing, by and large. There is so much = to choose from (my motto is "so much music, so little time"). If a = choir director is choosing the music, the organist gets stuck with a lot = of music he or she would never have chosen. We all know that singers = and choir directors usually don't have a good handle on what is easy or = hard to play. So in this sense I think one person doing both jobs = (perhaps calling in an accompanist occasionally for special works) can = usually be more effective. Merry =B4=A8=A8)) -:=A6:- =B8.=B7=B4 .=B7=B4=A8=A8)) ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4 ..=B7=B4 -:=A6:-=20 An excerpt from Robert Giddings "Musical Quotes and Anecdotes", published in Longman Pocket Companions:=20 "There let the pealing organ blow,=20 To the full-voiced choir below,=20 In service high, and anthems clear,=20 As may with sweetness, through mine ear,=20 Dissolve me into ecstasies,=20 And bring all Heav'n before mine eyes".=20 John Milton - Il Penseroso (1632).=20 Merry Foxworth Open Door Realty=20 Boston, MA 02131 =20 617 469-4888 x207 877 865-1703 toll free http://www.opendoorrlty.com/
(back) Subject: ALL READ Re: Colin From: "Tim Bovard" <email@example.com> Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 08:12:15 -0500 Dear Gentle Pipechatters, PLEASE trust your administrators to deal with the recent inappropriate language used in certain posings of this subject *by private email*, as we = are in fact doing. This is -> NOT <- a topic for general discussion on the List! = PLEASE!!!! As Colin himself has already asked, let's just DROP this topic, right now. If there are those that still feel compelled to comment, reply to <firstname.lastname@example.org> . Tim Bovard Pipechat Co-Administrator PS -- did *anyone* even bother to read David's reminder to EDIT YOUR POSTINGS...?????
(back) Subject: Toe-stud general pistons (x posted) From: "Robert Lind" <email@example.com> Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 10:41:55 -0500 A friend, not on these lists, wants to know when general pistons were = first available on duplicating toe studs. Thanks for your help, Bob Lind
(back) Subject: RE: Organist/choirmasters (short) From: "Randy Terry" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 08:58:44 -0700 I've done the same thing in my jobs. Occasionally for a lessons and = carols service or some similar, the organ part was especially busy, and I've = gotten colleagues to come and direct the choir for that piece. Since I was familiar with the accompaniment, it made more sense than someone else = having to learn it. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Randy Terry Music Minister The Episcopal Church of St. Peter Redwood City, California _____ From: DarrylbytheSea@aol.com Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 3:16 AM Subject: Re: Organist/choirmasters (longish) Sometimes, if the anthem has an especially tough accompaniment, I'll ask = one of the children's choir directos to arm wave, so I don't have to worry = about the choir, but almost never do I relinquish the organ accompaniment to another.
(back) Subject: Les Maitres From: "Jonathan Orwig" <email@example.com> Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 09:23:43 -0700 Many of you may remember I've been slowly making the "Les Maitres Contemporains" available online as a free download.... All of vol 3 is available, I have vol 1 now and vol 2 is on the way vol. 6 is being scanned and I also now have vol 7 Several of you have mentioned privately that it would be handy to have these on a CD... especially those who are still on dial up connections and for whom downloading numerous pages is a burden I'm willing to do this if there is sufficient interest... I'd charge a modest fee - it _is_ a bit of work to make the CDs, pack them and take them to the post - but the over-arching principle would be to give you lots of music for a small amount. I'd do a volume per CD or (eventually) all 8 on a DVD-R Let me know! -- Jonathan Orwig Evensong Music, Media and Graphics New Organ and Choral Music http://www.evensongmusic.net
(back) Subject: Re: Rollschweller and cone valve chests. - the response From: "Andy Lawrence" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 12:01:24 -0700 Thanks for getting that clarified, Nate. Very interesting about the Woolsey Hall organ! I am fascinated every time I hear of a Skinner or other famous organ that turns out it retained more of the previous organ than I thought. Its encouraging, actually, to think that not all was thrown away. So back to Colin's original point, I'm still trying to understand, Colin. I'm very curious as the closest I've ever come to experiencing German Romanic is the old Methuen organ, of which nothing is left of the Walcker mechanism and I'm not sure how much of the sound is intact... perhaps not much. I forgive you for thinking Woolsey Hall had ventils... I'm not here to bash anyone for making a mistake. So let me see if I've got this straight... Are you saying that the Walcker mechanism allowed for fewer mechanical noises while using the crescendo pedal than other technology of the day (such as sliders, which can make crashing noises, and ventils, which wind an entire chest, not just a stop), in a similar way that pitman chests do now, and that the crescendo was also more seamless than most pitman organs we know because of the tonal design and voicing? If so, I think I follow. What I wasn't seeing is how the Walcker crescendo system could possibly be aurally superior to what can be had with pitman chests, unless you are just referring to the differences in the pipes themselves. On 5/19/05, Nathan Smith <email@example.com> wrote: > Hello List, >=20 > The Newberry does not have any manual Hutchings chests anymore. It > is worth stating that the Hutchings chests it had were pitman chests, > of the early design by Mr. Skinner when he worked for Hutchings. There > are still quite a few Hutchings pedal chests in the organ, and the > facade pipe chests are Hutchings as well. The manual chests are mainly > 1915 Steere, with some Skinner chests added to accommodate the > enlargements. >
(back) Subject: Gmail... a new kind of email. From: "Andy Lawrence" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 12:27:33 -0700 This is not about organs, but this is something that I think will be of uniquely great interest to y'all, as its revolutionized pipechatting for me: Some may have noticed that I now use my gmail mail account rather than my ablorgans.com address. Its a free email service like hotmail and yahoo, but uses a much different system for archiving. Gmail is still by invite only, and a friend sent me an invitation a while back. They have now given me about 50 invitations to give out. Gmail is pretty cool, as it does not use folders, but rather does a google search (gmail stands for google mail) within your account whenever you want to find something. So there's no sorting ever, and you can still find whatever you want quite easily and quickly most of the time. But in a chatlist like this, the powers of gmail are just amazing!=20 The best part is that all incoming mail with the same subject header show up as ONE ITEM in the inbox, with a number in parentheses indicating how many messages there are with that subject, showing in bold if there one you haven't read yet, and all the items are sorted by most recent date, so if there's a new message the whole item moves to the top where you can easily notice it. So each thread is already in place and organized for you. So, for example, I've been able to follow this thread that Colin started about German romantic crescendos, without even looking at anything else. Its sort of like getting an instant individual digest for every thread. I have it set up so all emails from pipechat are flagged "pipechat", and have blocked anything flagged "pipechat" from entering my inbox. So when I want to see what's new with the list, I search "pipechat" and all pipechat stuff, and only pipechat stuff, come up just as in my old email when I used to have a filter. I now use gmail for all my email, but another approach could be to use it just for chatlists, and keep your old email as your normal email. I do not get anything for sending gmail invitations. I just enjoy this list and I'd like to give all 50 of my invitations to people on this list if there are that many interested, because it makes using this list amazingly easy, enough so that if many people here started using it, I think we'd see increased quality and quantity of posts because people would find it much easier and less time consuming to keep up. So if anyone wants gmail, email me privately, unless what you have to say will interest everyone. Ok, back to organs. Andy
(back) Subject: Re: Editing Postings - PLEASE READ! From: "Noel Stoutenburg" <email@example.com> Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 15:16:24 -0500 David, as Administrator wrote, in part > And there is no reason for seeing the PipeChat "footer", which is put > onto every post automatically by the list server, repeated over and > over and over again in a response posting. Leading me to wonder, if perhaps the "footer" could be changed to a separate email message attached to the end of a digest, and sent once to the list whenever a new digest is dispatched, rather than at the end of each message. Seems to me, it would save bandwidth. ns