PipeChat Digest #5363 - Monday, May 23, 2005
 
Dealer prices
  by "John Foss" <harkat@kat.forthnet.gr>
Re: Cost of Allen Quantum Q385
  by "N. Russotto" <ravenrockdesigns@gmail.com>
about pricing
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Dead Organ today at Church
  by "Nathan Smith" <erzahler@sbcglobal.net>
Re: Dealer prices
  by "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com>
Re: Dealer prices
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
hymn text help
  by "Margo Dillard" <dillardm@airmail.net>
Re: Dead organ today at church
  by "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu>
Re: Durufle Requiem - a question
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: An enigma wrapped in a mystery - OESA
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Concerts in Paris
  by "Daniel Hancock" <dhancock@brpae.com>
Re: Concerts in Paris
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
loud stops to lead singing
  by "Daniel Hancock" <dhancock@brpae.com>
Re: An enigma wrapped in a mystery - OESA
  by "Russ Greene" <rggreene2@shaw.ca>
RE: loud stops to lead singing
  by "Randy Terry" <randy@peacham.homeip.net>
Re: hymn text help
  by <Myosotis51@aol.com>
Re: An enigma wrapped in a mystery - OESA
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Happy Victoria Day!
  by "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca>
Loud stops to lead singing-The scarecrow approach
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
RE: hymn text help
  by "Garrison W Johnson" <johnco18@comcast.net>
Re: An enigma wrapped in a mystery - OESA
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
 

(back) Subject: Dealer prices From: "John Foss" <harkat@kat.forthnet.gr> Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 12:30:12 +0300   As a rule of thumb a dealer will buy an electronic organ at 33% of the = RMSP. This is not an unreasonable mark up - a dealer has premises to maintain, = and staff to pay. He/she (any female electronic organ dealers out there?) will =   also have capital invested in stock and parts. Current business practice = is to keep investment in spare parts to a minimum, assuming rapid = availability from the manufacturer. Again, speaking as a general rule, overheads will amount to another 33% and profit the final third. But the best advice is = to find a dealer who gives good service. This can usually be done by asking around! And in reality, electronic organs are a bit like dams - they = either give trouble in the first year or two or go on for 50 years in the case of =   dams and 15 years in the case of electronic organs! Even then, some can go =   on and on for what seems like ever - old Hammonds, etc. But a good installation is advisable, and it's a good idea to ask around locally. Incidentally after I had posted about Liverpool Cathedral the other day, Dave Bostock at Phoenix organs dropped me a line telling me that they had recently installed two four manual organs http://www.phoenixorgans.co.uk/ = in addition to several others. As these are "custom built" instruments the sales overheads of a dealership are eliminated, which is reflected in the price. Please note that I have no financial interest in this company, or = any other!   John Foss http://www.organsandorganistsonline.com/about.htm http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/orgofftop/      
(back) Subject: Re: Cost of Allen Quantum Q385 From: "N. Russotto" <ravenrockdesigns@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 06:02:04 -0500   Ahh, but Malcom! it would be "sry. i dint edit that pst."   Theres some REAL 'net shorthand for you!   .. . . And now back to our regularly scheduled program   NFR   --=20 Nicholas F. Russotto Somers, Connecticut Organist, Holy Cross PNCC Enfield, Connecticut Moderator/Owner: Monarch of Music=20 http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/monarch_of_music/  
(back) Subject: about pricing From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 07:20:04 EDT   Wow, 33% twice on an organ. My findings have been double the wholesale and add installation costs and =   FOB shipping from the factory. You simple MUST find a dealer with SERVICE---AND organs in stock so if you = call on Friday and it cannot be fixed, the dealer can at least bring in a = sub. An advantage(?) of digitals. I know of no company mandating retail pricing---and yes i know the field. So everything is negotiable in some way shape or form. FIND an organ that you LIKE THE SOUND OF.........that sounds best to your =   ears. then worry about everything else. much like buying a vehicle. you gots to pick it out and then haggle. or not. :-) dale in Florida who used every stinking pipe in the old Austin derelict yesterday twice a hymn and the postlude. <G>  
(back) Subject: Dead Organ today at Church From: "Nathan Smith" <erzahler@sbcglobal.net> Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 07:42:13 -0400   Dear List,   I would humbly submit that a bad air switch could be the cause of lack of DC power as well. This is a particular issue with the Klann units that have a little rubber diaphragm in them, which become stiff after time. I suggest the black OSI air switches as replacements, because they have an actual leathered pneumatic inside (that can be recovered), the leather has much less of a tendency to stiffen up.   Also, if your organ is an older one, it might have a pneumatic with a mercury switch on it.   Best,   Nate    
(back) Subject: Re: Dealer prices From: "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com> Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 06:43:36 -0500   John Foss wrote:   > (any female electronic organ dealers out there?)   At the moment, can't recall the name of the proprietress, but a company called The Beautiful Sound, at one time, the Chicago Allen Dealer, was owned by a person of the female persuasion.   ns  
(back) Subject: Re: Dealer prices From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 08:00:06 EDT   In a message dated 5/23/2005 7:44:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, mjolnir@ticnet.com writes:   (any female electronic organ dealers out there?)       a rodgers dealer in OK and also a rodgers dealer in MN and the owner of Altenburg's in NJ is Mother A and not the kids....... Also a Viscount dealer in Rochester MN so there are bound to be more----mostly rodgers it appears. wonder what THAT would imply? dale in hot already Florida  
(back) Subject: hymn text help From: "Margo Dillard" <dillardm@airmail.net> Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 07:08:50 -0500   Last year, I played for the funeral of a much-too-young man killed in Iraq, at which the hymn "Eternal Father, Strong to Save" was sung to a text printed in the bulletin. I thought to myself that I did not remember that it had verses that suited the other branches of the service. Memorial Day is coming up this weekend, and I thought I would pull that hymn out - but I find that none of the hymnals I have contain any verses except navy/sea specific. I checked the cyberhymnal and it includes verses that cover coast guard and air force. Does anyone out there have those other verses that mentioned those at peril on land, as well as sea and air? Even a general non- specific verse would be good.   Thanks, Margo  
(back) Subject: Re: Dead organ today at church From: "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu> Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 08:37:29 -0700   >HI list, I just got home from church today and much to my surprise, no >organ. The blower worked well but no D C current to the magnets. I had = to >use the piano instead. Can anyone here just give me an idea as to what = may >be wrong. It worked fine last week. Thanks in advance. Gary   How about a fuse? or a Circuit breaker?   John V --  
(back) Subject: Re: Durufle Requiem - a question From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 05:50:43 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   I accompanied Durufle Requiem entirely on the organ.   I was quite young at the time, and I could write a book about the struggles I had trying to get it up to scratch. It really is quite difficult, but absolutely superb music.   Regards,   Colin MItchell UK       --- Glenda <gksjd85@direcway.com> wrote: > For those who've done it. Did you do it with > orchestra, or did the > organ carry the entire accompaniment?   __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: An enigma wrapped in a mystery - OESA From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 05:57:38 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   Thanks top Jorge for that.....we're just one manual away from solving the mystery.   The photograph of the console on the URL quoted by John Speller, with six manuals, looks authentic enough.....but in this digital age, who knows?   I very much doubt that a sixth manual could be added to an exisitng 5-manual console easily; especially as nothing seems to be out of place and the console looks like an authentic Walcker job. Even if the sixth manual had been added digitally to the photograph, the number of thumb pistons is quite different on ALL manuals; suggesting that it isn't a crude fake.   The mystery continues!   Regards,     Colin Mitchell UK     --- Jorge Gomez <qvixotes@yahoo.com> wrote: > There are photos of the Walcker organ in Montjuich > (Barcelona-Spain) in an organist handbook from "Hugo > Riemann" edited in the beginning of XX century, > showing the console of this organ with 5 manuals. > > OESA is the acronym for "Organer=EDa Espa=F1ola", a > basque > company that worked in Spain   __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Concerts in Paris From: "Daniel Hancock" <dhancock@brpae.com> Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 09:51:33 -0500   >From: "Lynde & Connie Kimball" <lkimball@sover.net> >Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 07:40:59 -0400   >Can anyone tell me how to find out about organ concerts that will take=20 >place in parts of France, Germany, Switzerland, and Italy in July 2005?   > We am particularly interested in Strasbourg, Paris, southern Germany,   >Zurich and Milan. I have tried on the Internet and usually get lists=20 >of concerts from previous years. We will plan portions of our trip=20 >around concerts if we can find out about them in advance. Thanks for=20 >any help!   Connie--   There is a publication available in Paris, France--and I can't remember what it is called right now!) but it is a little booklet about the size of T.V. guide, published weekly, with all concert and performance information for that week in the region. You can find it in any newsstand on the street--of which there are plenty!   I generally find that there are more organ concerts at any given time than I can attend. So, just plan on going to Paris, and rest assured that there will be organ concerts to go to, especially on the weekend.   Hope this helps. I'll look for the name of that publication, and forward it.   Daniel Hancock Springfield, Missouri  
(back) Subject: Re: Concerts in Paris From: "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 10:58:13 -0400   The weekly guide for Paris is called Pariscope. It's available at every newstand.   Randy Runyon     On May 23, 2005, at 10:51 AM, Daniel Hancock wrote:   >> From: "Lynde & Connie Kimball" <lkimball@sover.net> >> Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 07:40:59 -0400 >> > > >> Can anyone tell me how to find out about organ concerts that will >> take >> place in parts of France, Germany, Switzerland, and Italy in July >> 2005? >> > > >> We am particularly interested in Strasbourg, Paris, southern >> Germany, >> > > >> Zurich and Milan. I have tried on the Internet and usually get lists >> of concerts from previous years. We will plan portions of our trip >> around concerts if we can find out about them in advance. Thanks for >> any help! >> > > Connie-- > > There is a publication available in Paris, France--and I can't > remember > what it is called right now!) but it is a little booklet about the > size > of T.V. guide, published weekly, with all concert and performance > information for that week in the region. You can find it in any > newsstand on the street--of which there are plenty! > > I generally find that there are more organ concerts at any given time > than I can attend. So, just plan on going to Paris, and rest assured > that there will be organ concerts to go to, especially on the weekend. > > Hope this helps. I'll look for the name of that publication, and > forward it. > > Daniel Hancock > Springfield, Missouri > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > >    
(back) Subject: loud stops to lead singing From: "Daniel Hancock" <dhancock@brpae.com> Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 10:00:49 -0500   >I don't know if the voicing varies much between individual units... my=20 >fondest memory is the sheer power and edge of that 8' Diapason,=20 >super-coupled for the 8-4' effect, in leading singing - well nicked, no   >chiff, but very prompt and bright. I was less impressed with the softer   >stops - charming, but with less color and interest to my ear, a rather=20 >thin Gamba, 8' stopped diapason, and 4' open flute. The difference=20 >between that grand diapason and the 3 other stops ( in a swell box) made=20 >it behave like a one-stop Grand Great and a three-stop Echo or something=20 >- the soft stops made practically no contribution when drawn behind the   >"Big Bertha" Open Diapason.   >But perhaps that was a logical concept for the time and purpose - soft=20 >stops for quiet "churchy" things beforehand, and one nice loud stop to=20 >lead singing.   >It would be interesting to hear others' experiences of these old standbys.     John--   The late 1910 A.B. Felgemaker Opus 1067 at St. Agnes parish in Springfield Missouri was like this. =20   There was a bit more to the stoplist:   GREAT=09   8' Open Diapason 8' Melodia 8' Dulciana 4' Octave 4' Flute D'Amour   SWELL   8' Violin Diapason 8' Stopped Diapason 8' Salicional 4' Aeoline 8' Oboe Gamba   PEDAL 16' Bourdon   COUPLERS Sw to Pd Gt to Pd Sw to Gt 16, 8, 4   The Great Open Diapason and Octave were much louder than the rest of the organ, and were clearly intended to accompany hearty singing. The rest of the organ really had a nice sound and blend, especially the Violin Diapason, which had a much tighter sound than the Great Open. The only thing that you could really hear over the Great "principals" was the Oboe Gamba, when coupled at 4' down to the Great ensemble. It was a challenge to play, and I loved it!=20   The organ is now in storage, awaiting a new home, hopefully, in mine! Pictures and specs at http://www.organsandorganistsonline.com   Best regards--   Daniel Hancock Springfield, Missouri  
(back) Subject: Re: An enigma wrapped in a mystery - OESA From: "Russ Greene" <rggreene2@shaw.ca> Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 10:07:39 -0500   Hello Colin or John,   Don't seem to have received said URL. Could you repost it?   Thanks, Russ Greene         On May 23, 2005, at 7:57 AM, Colin Mitchell wrote:   > The photograph of the console on the URL quoted by > John Speller, with six manuals, looks authentic > enough.....but in this digital age, who knows? >    
(back) Subject: RE: loud stops to lead singing From: "Randy Terry" <randy@peacham.homeip.net> Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 08:21:41 -0700   I helped put a defunct Pilcher tracker from the late 1890's near my = hometown back into playing condition. It was in an old church that had been = acquired by a neighbor congregation for a chapel complex, and was beautifully restored.   The stoplist was as follows:   GREAT:   8' Diapason 8' Melodia 8' Dulciana   SWELL:   8' Violin Diapason 8' Stopped Diapason 8' Salicional 4' Flute Harmonic   PEDAL:   16' Bourdon   Great & Swell to Pedal 8' Swell to Great 8' & 4'   The Diapason is loud and not very pretty. The Violin Diapason is = scratchy, but the flutes are quite nice. The organ suffers greatly from the lack of = a real 4' Octave. Besides the organ, they have two big shiny black = Wurlitzer grand pianos, in a room that seats about 100! I've heard they often use = all three instruments to accompany the congregation!   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Randy Terry Music Minister The Episcopal Church of St. Peter Redwood City, California        
(back) Subject: Re: hymn text help From: <Myosotis51@aol.com> Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 11:27:47 EDT   Hello dillardm@airmail.net,     In reference to your comment: Last year, I played for the funeral of a much-too-young man killed in Iraq, at which the hymn "Eternal Father, Strong to Save" was sung to a text printed in the bulletin. I thought to myself that I did not remember that it had verses that suited the other branches of the service. Memorial Day is coming up this weekend, and I thought I would pull that hymn out - but I find that none of the hymnals I have contain any verses except navy/sea specific. I checked the cyberhymnal and it includes verses that cover coast guard and air force. Does anyone out there have those other verses that mentioned Navy FAQ: Navy Hymn, Eternal Father those at peril on land, as well as = sea and air? Even a general non- specific verse would be good.   Thanks, Margo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Here are the rest of the Armed Forces. There are many other verses than copied here. Enjoy! Victoria     _http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/questions/eternal.html_ (http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/questions/eternal.html) Lord, guard and guide the men who fly Through the great spaces in the sky. Be with them always in the air, In darkening storms or sunlight fair; Oh, hear us when we lift our prayer, For those in peril in the air! Mary C. D. Hamilton (1915)   Eternal Father, grant, we pray, To all Marines, both night and day, The courage, honor, strength, and skill Their land to serve, thy law fulfill; Be thou the shield forevermore From every peril to the Corps. J. E. Seim (1966)   Lord, stand beside the men who build, And give them courage, strength, and skill. O grant them peace of heart and mind, And comfort loved ones left behind. Lord, hear our prayers for all Seabees, Where'er they be on land or sea. R. J. Dietrich (1960)   Lord God, our power evermore, Whose arm doth reach the ocean floor, Dive with our men beneath the sea; Traverse the depths protectively. O hear us when we pray, and keep Them safe from peril in the deep. David B. Miller (1965)    
(back) Subject: Re: An enigma wrapped in a mystery - OESA From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 08:28:07 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   The web site I found, with "photographs" of the huge 6-manual console at Barcelona is as follows:-   http://www.magicspain.com/michael/composer.htm   The Walcker listing quotes 5-manuals.   I have just discovered that OESA (A now defunct Spanish organ-building concern) were simply terrible organ-builders, and it is known that they worked on the "Palais" organ in Barcelona; presumably at a time when the Spanish economy was in complete collapse and when good materials were difficult to come by.   Apparenly, OESA used an action system which was unreliable, and when problems developed with leather pouches, it was necessary to remove all the pipes from the afflicted wind-chests. Now this MAY explain why we never hear of this instrument.....imagine removing 10,000 pipes at every tuning visit!!!!!!!!!   Things do not look encouraging for the condition of this instrument; assuming that it is still in situ.   The Montjuich Palace, Barcelona, was a truly fantastic undertaking....a grandiose complex of buildings built for an international exposition.....and for anyone interested, I have some photographs which I could forward.   Regards,   Colin MItchell UK       --- Russ Greene <rggreene2@shaw.ca> wrote: > Hello Colin or John, > > Don't seem to have received said URL. Could you > repost it?       Discover Yahoo! Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/mobile.html  
(back) Subject: Happy Victoria Day! From: "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 11:33:36 -0400   To all my Canadian friends, - Happy Victoria Day!   Remember to come on board tonight for PipeChat IRC from 9.00 pm on - until it finishes.   Details can be found on the PipeChat web page   www.pipechart.org   I hope we shall you there,   Bob Conway    
(back) Subject: Loud stops to lead singing-The scarecrow approach From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 08:48:52 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   There is absolutely no substitute for a horizontal Tuba Mirabilis on 25" wind, such as can be heard at York Minster, here in the UK.   York Minster is a bit of a "cavern" acoustically, and the organ was never over-powerful; being based on the old Elliot & Hill instrument, and in spite of subsequent re-builds.   Dr Francis Jackson was the absolute master of "crowd control" when it came to the big event, and never since have I heard anyone bring a full cathedral "to heel" in the way that he could.   The last verses of "shout along" Christmas Carols were always a special delight, for not only would he "lead the sheep" (drive the sheep?) with the big Tuba, he could silence them also.   The technique was to wait right to the end, hold the last chord for the right amount of time, and then touch the Solo to Great piston whilst lifting the hands.   "Wham!!!!"   It never failed....like a sonic stun-gun.....not a sound could be heard from 3,000 gaping mouths.   There is a wonderful example of the technique left to posterity on the now ancient HMV "Great Cathedral Organs" series, when Dr Jackson recorded the Bossi G-minor Scherzo. You certainly know when the piece ends!!   And talking of the "Bossi Scarecrow," why is it that everyone starts with the wrong timing?   Dr Jackson got it wrong on the HMV recording, and a recent example of the piece, which can be heard on "organs& organists on-line," does exactly the same thing.   Will people please note.....the Bossi Scarecrow starts OFF THE BEAT!!   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK             __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: RE: hymn text help From: "Garrison W Johnson" <johnco18@comcast.net> Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 11:54:36 -0400   Eternal Father, strong to save, Whose arm hath bound the restless wave, Who bids the mighty ocean deep Its own appointed limits keep: O hear us when we cry to Thee For those in peril on the sea   O Christ, the Lord of hill and plain O'er which our traffic runs a-main By mountain pass or valley low: Where ever, Lord our brethren go, Protect them by Thy guarding hand From every peril on the land.   O Spirit, whom the Father sent o spread abroad the firmament: O Wind of heaven, by Thy might Save all who dare the eagle's flight, And keep them by Thy watchful care From every peril in the air.   O Trinity of love and power, Our brethren shield in danger's hour; From rock and tempest, fire and foe, Protect them where-so-e'r they go; Thus evermore shall rise to Thee Glad praise from air and land and sea.     -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of Margo Dillard Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 8:09 AM To: PipeChat Subject: hymn text help     Last year, I played for the funeral of a much-too-young man killed in Iraq, at which the hymn "Eternal Father, Strong to Save" was sung to a text printed in the bulletin. I thought to myself that I did not remember that it had verses that suited the other branches of the service. Memorial Day is coming up this weekend, and I thought I would pull that hymn out - but I find that none of the hymnals I have contain any verses except navy/sea specific. I checked the cyberhymnal and it includes verses that cover coast guard and air force. Does anyone out there have those other verses that mentioned those at peril on land, as well as sea and air? Even a general non- specific verse would be good.   Thanks, Margo      
(back) Subject: Re: An enigma wrapped in a mystery - OESA From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 09:03:15 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   A-ha!   I've just re-examined the "photographs" of the organ of the Montjuich Palace, Barcelona SpA.   Something is very wrong!   Whilst the photograph of the un-occupied console shows a 6-manual instrument, the photographs of Michael Reckling playing the instrument suggest that it has but five manuals, which is what one would expect.   Is the "6-manual" photograph authentic I wonder?   Michael Reckling is a photographer and film director.........   Regards,   Colin MItchell UK       __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail