PipeChat Digest #5369 - Thursday, May 26, 2005
 
Re: 4th and 5th manuals
  by "Andy Lawrence" <lawrenceandy@gmail.com>
_Bach_ quarterly copies free
  by "Karl Moyer" <kmoyer@millersville.edu>
Re: 4th and 5th manuals
  by "Travis L. Evans" <tlevans95@charter.net>
An organic spring weekend, Part 2
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com>
French Petit Jeux
  by "James Burkholder" <jburkhol@ameritech.net>
Re: Sailor's hymn revisions
  by "Paul Valtos" <chercapa@enter.net>
Re: Story (Acts 29: Stoning of the Organist) attrib. Garrison Keillor
  by <ProOrgo53@aol.com>
Re: I'm OFF TO SEE THE WIZARD .........
  by "Harry Grove" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk>
Re: POLAND 3 (VERY LONG)
  by <SWF12262@aol.com>
Re: Sydney Opera House organ
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
5th manuals
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
RE: 5th manuals
  by "Randy Terry" <randy@peacham.homeip.net>
Music by Podbielski (Was POLAND 3)
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
RE: 5th manuals
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Sydney Opera House organ
  by "John Foss" <harkat@kat.forthnet.gr>
 

(back) Subject: Re: 4th and 5th manuals From: "Andy Lawrence" <lawrenceandy@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 13:07:50 -0700   Cool, Monty, I didn't realize you played there. It was a recital by Dan Miller that was the last straw to get me to learn to play (in college). Haven't been down to hear that organ yet though. (I'm assuming I've got the right church... the big Moller).   And as far as manuals, Peter Conte uses his 6th manual regularly. So I guess multiple manuals really can get used, though I've been known even to use the upper manual of the two manual I play as a shelf, on occasion. Though you wouldn't be able to use the 6th manual of Wanamakers as a shelf for anything that wasn't sticky. :)   Andy   > On 5/24/05, RMB10@aol.com <RMB10@aol.com> wrote: > I currently play a 4 manual instrument and I use the 4th manual all the t= ime. > I don't find it a stretch to reach up there. When I was the Organist/As= soc. > Director of Music at Calvary Church, Charlotte, I used the 4th and 5th > manuals on a regular basis, so when designing the new organ for my church= , I didn't  
(back) Subject: _Bach_ quarterly copies free From: "Karl Moyer" <kmoyer@millersville.edu> Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 17:19:53 -0400   Hi,   The Riemenschneider Bach Institute published a quarterly back in the 1970's, and I have Vol. I - III complete, save that III,2. April 1972, is missing.   I need to get rid of things, and I would pass along to whatever person or institution yells first. I need no $$$ for them, but I suppose it = would be nice to at least recoup my mailing costs to send them to you.   Now, don't all shout at once. But the first guy across the finish = line gets the trophy.   Cordially,   Karl E. Moyer Lancaster PA    
(back) Subject: Re: 4th and 5th manuals From: "Travis L. Evans" <tlevans95@charter.net> Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 17:02:02 -0500   I agree that the 5th manual isn't all that hard to reach. I'm 5'7" and recently had the opportunity to play the organ at St. Barts in NYC and = had been worried about being able to reach the 5th manual, but alas no problem and the stops and couplers all were easy to reach, though took a bit to find the stops I wanted a couple times, but all in all a pleasant experience.   Travis     ----- Original Message ----- From: <RMB10@aol.com> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 10:14 PM Subject: 4th and 5th manuals     > I currently play a 4 manual instrument and I use the 4th manual all the time. > I don't find it a stretch to reach up there. When I was the Organist/Assoc. > Director of Music at Calvary Church, Charlotte, I used the 4th and 5th > manuals on a regular basis, so when designing the new organ for my = church, I didn't > think twice about including a 5th manual. Because there have been some > nay-sayers about why we are having a 5th manual on the organ, I did it = to save on > the number of floating divisions (it will be home to the Grand Choeur) = but also > because we currently have a 4 manual instrument. John Q. Pewsitter doesn't > understand that a 3 manual organ can have 85 ranks and a 4 manual organ can have > 42 ranks. The folks in the congregation see a console with buttons and knobs > and keyboards. To them the more keyboards equals a bigger instrument. > Moving into a larger church and talking about a larger organ was going = to > necessitate us having something more than we had, which already includes = a 4 manual > console, an antiphonal division and a chamade. > > Being 6'2" might give me an advantage to playing large consoles, but I don't > think a well designed console should be inacessible to shorter people. = We had > concerts at Calvary when short people played and they got around the console > just fine. Diane Bish was able to reach the coupler rail without any problems > and it was over the 5th manual. If one can reach the couplers, there's = no > reason why an organist can't reach the top manual on a 5 manual console. A few > months ago I played the new organ at 1st Presbyterian Church, Naples, = FL. The > console is very comfortable to play. I wanted to get a feel as to how = the > new Ruffatti console would be for my church. > > The Calvary console was always easy to get around on--nothing was very = far > from my reach. The top manual was easy to play, I never had to reach = far. > > I made sure that the manuals on the new console for my church WERE NOT > slanted, because I think that in most situations it makes for poor technique. > Manuals should be flat for proper technique. I hate going to play recitals and > finding three manual organs with slanted keyboards. It drives me up a wall...I > find myself having to adjust my hand positions. > > Just a few random thoughts after a sectional rehearsal tonight... > > > Monty Bennett > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> >    
(back) Subject: An organic spring weekend, Part 2 From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 18:50:33 -0500   I didn't see this arrive at my computer, and David didn't find it either. So we'll try again. Pardon me if it is a repeat.   gks   An organic spring weekend Part 2   I awakened Saturday morning at 6:00, threw stuff into the overnight, and headed out. However, I was slow getting out of town, and the traffic on the mostly two-lane road from DFS to Montgomery had swelled with traffic. By the time I made it to Montgomery, my left sinus had stopped up. But it soon cleared up, or so I thought.   I made it to just outside Atlanta before having to stop for gas. It was then that I remembered my nightgown and robe hanging in the closet. So I had to go shopping for an alternate.   I made it to Larry's at roughly 5:00 p.m. Saturday. He lives in an older, very pretty, quiet and lush neighborhood only about fifteen minutes from downtown, just up the road from where the movie "Driving Miss Daisy" was filmed. And in fact, he had planned dinner for me with a neighbor he referred to as "Miss Daisy" and the house manager of the Fox Theatre.   The home was a handsome cottage, nothing ostentatious on the outside. But when I walked inside, I was impressed. The interior was tres chic. His living room boasted a nine foot Baldwin that had been blessed by the Pope during a visit to California, and a Roland 2-manual keyboard ("Atelier"?) with some neat sampled sounds. The dining area featured a Chihuly painting and chandelier.   The other guests arrived, and he served a wonderful meal. We talked and nibbled on appetizers with champagne, and then enjoyed a Chinese chicken salad, a tilapia broiled and stuffed with crab and shrimp, and a chocolate ice cream dessert swimming in luscious raspberry sauce, all served in the most attractive manner. I'm sure there were other courses in there, but there were lots of wine and plenty of scintillating conversation until quite late. The only thing that spoiled it was that I started sneezing during dinner.   After dinner, I knew I was developing a sinus infection, the first one I had suffered in several years. However, just that morning while packing I had felt great and emptied my little carryall of all meds except for a few Claritin and an Alka-Seltzer. I ended up that night taking both.   The next morning I felt better. While drinking morning coffee I listened to some of Larry's collection of Ted Alan Worth at the organ. Then we headed to First Presbyterian Church for the principal service. This was a nice old downtown church, with beautiful Tiffany windows flanking each side. I particularly liked the blue ceiling with gold stars over the choir loft. The organ, a 1992 Zimmer rebuild of something else, was playable by two consoles, one in the front gallery choir loft above the pulpit, and another in the rear gallery. The church's website stated that the instrument is 105 ranks, and that the rear console plays the gallery divisions. A chapel housed a 2-manual 4-rank Moller (which we did not hear).   When the prelude music began, I was less than ecstatic. The service began with a handbell choir, definitely not my favorite thing. Then it moved directly to my other not favorite thing, a brass ensemble. I suddenly longed for St. Philip's and Bruce Neswick up the street. However, any church service can be an educational experience. This was Larry's home church, and he knew I was looking for a rear gallery organ in Atlanta as a venue for a scene in my novel. This one did not match my mental vision, although an organist playing the back console would be a fine target for a shooter.   Inasmuch as the Presbyterians were celebrating Mother's Day and not the Sunday after the Ascension, I missed my Ascension hymns. The prelude to the first hymn had nothing to do with the hymn tune, and the choir and congregation, and indeed the organ, could not be heard over the brass. I did not actually get to hear the organ until the hymn prior to the sermon, 'Fairest Lord Jesus'. The congregation did not sing. The last hymn - 'O God our Help in Ages Past' - gave us no clue as to when to sing and not to sing, but the congregation had apparently given up on singing long ago, so it was OK. The postlude was by organ and brass, an 'Alleluia' by J.S. Bach - nicely done and better balanced than the rest of the service. The Presbyterians did give a form of an altar call, which pleased me, and all the people seemed friendly and outgoing.   From there we drove to the Georgian Terrace to have a Mother's Day brunch from hell at the Savoy Grill. We sat on the terrace across from the Fox Theatre and enjoyed the sunshine and breeze while sipping mimosas and eating wonderful fare. There was the usual breakfast stuff, with cream cheese crepes, sausage and bacon, French toast, hash browns, and all that. The chef made the omelets in front of us, and I ordered a well-done 'kitchen sink' omelet. There were prime rib and fish and chicken and veggies, oh my. And the last table hosted a myriad of sinful desserts.   After coffee we walked across to the Fox for Larry to check his mail. I always experience a thrill seeing the inside of the Fox, which seems so unassuming from the outside, and so huge once you are within. Then we wended our way out of town to Clayton State College and Spivey Hall to hear Alan Morrison.   It was a lovely spring day, and the traffic was moderate. We made it on time (I did not want to repeat my hour-late appearance at Felix Hell's recital there). We had seats about five rows from Alan at the console, and the organ was situated right in front of us so that we could see everything. One could not have asked for better service from the Spivey Hall staff in securing tickets - they have always provided fabulous advice and great seating.   Mr. Morrison's program:   Suite for Organ, op. 70 (3 movements: Prelude, Prayer, Toccata) - Paul Creston Cantilene - Daniel Crozier Mountain Music (3 movements: At Evening, Quick Dance, Pilgrimage) - Harold Stover Carillon - Leo Sowerby In Mystery and Wonder (The Casavant Diptych) - Dan Locklair   Intermission   Passacaglia on a Theme by Dunstable - John Weaver Fantasy - Eric Sessler Resurrection - Larry King Tintinnabulation - William E. Krape   I had met Morrison before at Rollins College, and was impressed with his playing and his demeanor then. So I looked forward to his program in this room. Well, you know I looked at this program and my heart just sank. All twentieth century music - how could one avoid freight train music in such company?   Isn't that a cruel way to end this serial?   Glenda Sutton gksjd85@direcway.com          
(back) Subject: French Petit Jeux From: "James Burkholder" <jburkhol@ameritech.net> Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 20:35:54 -0400   I'm interested in how people register the petit jeux in French music. I've done some reading about the jeux, including Fenner Douglass's book, but would appreciate some comments from the web-members about how they handle this, compared to the grand jeux. Does one use the best available diapasons 8', 4', 2', some reeds. a nazard or tierce that maybe on the positif? I thought the positif was pretty scarce as to the variety of voices available. Should this jeux be much quieter than the grand jeux?   Thanks J. Burkholder  
(back) Subject: Re: Sailor's hymn revisions From: "Paul Valtos" <chercapa@enter.net> Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 22:55:31 -0400   Dear Dan, If you pick up the Armed Services Hymnal you will find that all of = the services have words written for the Hymn. I believe that the third verse = is Air Force. I plan to have that hymn sung at my funeral and need to have copies made. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Hancock" <dhancock@brpae.com> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 11:21 AM Subject: Sailor's hymn revisions     >From: "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca> >Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 13:27:21 -0400   >I cannot agree that the 'Sailor's Hymn', (Eternal Father, Strong to save), >be modified, altered, added to, or any other changes made to it.   >The hymn was written specifically for sailors, be they Royal Navy or >Merchant Navy, - and not for Air Force or Army personnel. If a hymn is   >needed for them, I am sure that there are people on this list who are able >to write one, - but leave the "Sailor's Hymn" as it is.   >Bob Conway   But I think this is what's being done. If the text is changed enough, then it isn't the same hymn anymore. And the text is the hymn, regardless of the tune that it is sung to.   It appears to be a simple matter of writing text to match the occasion.   Daniel Hancock   ****************************************************************** "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>    
(back) Subject: Re: Story (Acts 29: Stoning of the Organist) attrib. Garrison Keillor From: <ProOrgo53@aol.com> Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 01:12:11 EDT   _Acts 29_ (http://home.earthlink.net/~wskeels/organ.htm)  
(back) Subject: Re: I'm OFF TO SEE THE WIZARD ......... From: "Harry Grove" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk> Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 06:39:41 +0100   I thought that it was an excellent one-man show; and I was also delighted with the size of the audience. To have the Ground and First stages some two thirds full, and the upper courses well occupied as well speaks volumes for the esteem in which organ =   playing is held in this area of the world.   What a shame that the early talk about organ music (Graeme Kay) came over = so poorly. At it's conclusion I said to a friend who was accompanying me; "I realise that I have come here from a health club - swimming pool, Jacuzzi, etc - and I might still have water in my ears, but where was the superb acoustic for which the hall is renowned ?" His reply? "Harry, on this occasion, you're not at fault." And persons in neighbouring rows voiced their agreement; "Too garbled in delivery," "Somewhat slurred pronunciation," and "I thought they'd left = the reverb switched ON"   Happily, the acoustic chambers were adjusted for the recital; even then, = the mic. David used for his 'little talks' was so much clearer than that = Graeme used. ____________   I agree with you about David's playing.   The Bach, in particular, shone out. A pedantic critic (Morrley ?) might = have said "An unsure start, with mistakes evident" - but then they would have been listening to the notes and not the music. It captured the spirit of = the piece(s) magnificently and I have seldom heard a happier rendition of such =   well-known tunes.   The Messiaen was quiet moving. I have often wondered if I have sufficient years left to live in which to get to understand Messiaen. This performance proved that I have (to my relief). I'd like to hear more = of David interpreting his works.   And I intend to get a copy of the Pastorale (Jean Roger-Ducasse) to play = at Christmas. I think it will fit into our activities at that period quite nicely - and give me sufficient time to get it 'up to speed'. _____________   The evening did prove to me that 'if you want to beat Schumacher, you have =   to start off by driving a car at least as good as the one he's sitting in' = ! I wonder what I'd sound like - given the opportunity to play that organ ? I wonder what it costs to hire the hall and play that instrument ? If I = get up enough courage to ask (don't worry, I'll be sitting down when they tell =   me the price) maybe I'll post you all in the UK and you can come down and share the experience (and some of the cost ?) and have a tinkle in your = turn ?   Where were you sitting, Will ? I was up in the 'Gods', about level with = the Great division, on the right hand side. My one big gripe about the Hall ............ I know I'm a big guy, but I = am fit and I do 'work-out' still ............... but I can't fit into the = seats at Symphony Hall ! I have the ushers bring an arm-less seat and put it into the 'disabled' (flexible) seating area(s) - and they're a great bunch of guys and gals. Strange that I have to do this in Brum. I don't have the same problem in other halls. Glynbourne seats are some of the best in the world (and they should be .. at those prices - =A3160 a head, the opera I went to last = year .... and still excellent value, too, for that quality of music).   Harry Grove [a.k.a. a musicman trying to be accommodated] _____________   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com> To: "'PipeChat'" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 9:58 AM Subject: RE: I'm OFF TO SEE THE WIZARD .........     Absolutely brilliant! Best recital I've been to in a very long while! David Goode's own arrangement of the 3rd Brandenburg was stunningly good- = it deserves to become a "standard" I think, and in no way was in inferior to = a "proper" Bach organ work. The Karg-Elert and the Liszt were delightful. Thalben-Ball's variations on = a theme of Paganini, which is an almost pedal-only piece, was not only a stunning example of pedaling technique but was also brilliantly = registered. The Ride of the Valkyries was as great a crowd pleaser as when Lemare = toured the country with it more than 100 years ago... I've never been very fond of Messiaen- but even this item was almost palatable! The rest of the programme was simply a delight! I felt privileged to have been there!   So, how was it for YOU?   Will Light ['SNIP]    
(back) Subject: Re: POLAND 3 (VERY LONG) From: <SWF12262@aol.com> Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 01:47:03 EDT   Dear Colin, Thank you for a most interesting tour! I had no idea Poland had so much = to offer in the way of organs. I took your advice and did: Listen to the following, by the Polish composer Podbielski:-         Can you tell me how to obtain a copy of this delightful composition? It sounds fairly accessible, and I KNOW my pastor would appreciate a piece = like this for a postlude. We are a very multicultural parish, but I can't help = feeling I shortchange the Poles -- I just don't have much of their = repertoire. We do bring in soloists from the Lira Singers (Chicago's premier Polish = choir), but an organ piece like this would be well received. Thank you for your exhaustive research! Steve Steven Weyand Folkers Director of Music St. Lambert RC Church Skokie, IL USA  
(back) Subject: Re: Sydney Opera House organ From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 23:11:24 -0700 (PDT)   Helo,   I'm going entirely from memory, but I seem to recall that the programme of Peter Hurford's recording at Sydney Opera House included "Jesu Joy," the "Albinoni Adagio," possibly the T & F in D minor, the Purcell Trumpet Tune, one or two other ditties and the Murill "Carillon" to end with in spectacular style.   I've got the LP somewhere.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK   PS: I think he also performed the Walford Davies "Solemn March."   --- Malcolm Wechsler <manderusa@earthlink.net> wrote:   > > Peter actually made a full cassette recording of the > Opera House Organ, > shortly after it was built. I can't recall now just > what was on it   __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: 5th manuals From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 23:14:40 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   I'm all for 5 manual trackers, where only the bottom three work.   I find that with 5-manuals, it's possible to really spread open the Sunday Newspaper during the sermon, and get on with the crossword.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK           __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/  
(back) Subject: RE: 5th manuals From: "Randy Terry" <randy@peacham.homeip.net> Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 23:51:08 -0700   I've heard a story (supposedly true, according to the source) about a = church in Birmingham, AL, with a 5 manual Keates-Grissley (sic) organ with a huge console.   The organist is a well-endowed matron who isn't very tall. Apparently, = when she used the Antiphonal (manual 5) during a famous Gordon Young = composition, a part of her endowment bumped the Choir (manual 1) and gave everyone a laugh, except, of course, the organist.   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Randy Terry Music Minister The Episcopal Church of St. Peter Redwood City, California          
(back) Subject: Music by Podbielski (Was POLAND 3) From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 23:53:33 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   I have struggled a little to find reference to printed sheet-music composed by Podbielski.   However, I have discovered that most Polish music is printed and distributed by PWM, which must be some sort of hang-over from the communist era.   I will give three addresses, because there is the Polish outlet, the US/Canadian distributors and the UK outlet.   These are as follows:   PWM Al. Krasi&#324;skiego 11.a 31-111 Krak=F3w tel. +48(12) 422-70-44 fax. +48(12) 422-01-74   Colporters of PWM for America and Great Britain:   USA, CANADA THEODORE PRESSER COMPANY 1 Presser Place Bryn Mawr PA 19010-3490 Tel. +1 610 5253636 Fax. +1 610 5277841   GB Alfred A. Kalmus Ltd. 38 Eldon Way Paddock Wood TN12 6BE Tonbridge Kent ENGLAND Tel. +44 1892 833422 Fax. +44 1892 836038     If this doesn't yield anything, let me know. I MAY be able to dig around in the UK.....we have people who "know".......someone will almost certainly have it somewhere.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK   --- SWF12262@aol.com wrote: >   > > Thank you for a most interesting tour! Polish composer Podbielski:- > > Can you tell me how to obtain a copy of this > delightful composition?   __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: RE: 5th manuals From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 23:56:06 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   THAT'S where the term "Brustwerk" comes from!   I always wondered.   :)   Regards,   Colin MItchell UK     --- Randy Terry <randy@peacham.homeip.net> wrote: > I've heard a story ......part of her endowment bumped the Choir (manual 1) > and gave everyone a > laugh, except, of course, the organist.       __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/  
(back) Subject: Re: Sydney Opera House organ From: "John Foss" <harkat@kat.forthnet.gr> Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 11:59:22 +0300   The Sydney Opera House Organ can also be heard in the Public Downloads = area of Organs and Organists Online at the moment http://www.organsandorganistsonline.com/ , though it will shortly move to the members area. Michael Dudman is playing Buxtehude's Prelude and Fugue = in D. Michael was Director of Music at Shore School in Sydney for a time = before moving to England as Assistant Organist at Ely Cathedral and later at Grimsby Parish Church. He then returned to Australia as organist at Newcastle Cathedral, Professor of Organ at the Newcastle Conservatorium = and Organist to the Australian Broadcasting Corporation. Norman Johnston, who was Professor of Organ at the New South Wales Conservatorium and organist to Sydney University until his retirement, taught Michael Dudman. He (Norman) has a two manual practise organ in his house built by Sharp. I met Ron Sharp in Sydney while I was there - it was =   at the 25th anniversary concert of the SOH organ, and also enjoyed a very good dinner with some of the Australian members of this list at Norman Johnston's house. There is some comparison between Sydney Opera House and Weingarten in that =   both Sharp and Gabler are known for virtually one organ - but, as Sir Christopher Wren, Professor of Astronomy at the University of Oxford, said =   of St Paul's Cathedral "If you want a memorial, look around you."   John Foss http://www.organsandorganistsonline.com/ http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/orgofftop/ Topic of the week : Yes or no to the European Constitution?